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Author Topic: Best Phosphate export?  (Read 9140 times)

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Offline SweetReefOH

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Best Phosphate export?
« on: October 21, 2018, 19:21:30 »
Since ramping my lights down so much, my PO4 is getting out of hand in both systems. I am currently using ChemiPure Elite (carbon/GFO mix) but I just don’t think it’s enough. Im looking at phosguard, rowaphos and high density GFO. I’m curious to know what everyone uses and why.

Offline dbjonesjr

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2018, 20:04:58 »
So possibly not a good opinion as I use phosguard in a HOB filter but it works great at keeping my phosphates super low.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 18:22:31 »
No opinion is a bad one my friend. Thanks for the input. I know I’m not the only one looking for a good phos export....

So possibly not a good opinion as I use phosguard in a HOB filter but it works great at keeping my phosphates super low.

Offline Steve

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 18:27:04 »
I have used the high density gfo and am currently using the regular from BRS. They both work, couldn't really tell enough difference in the 2 to justify the high density.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 20:20:58 »
Thanks Steve. Do you use it in a reactor? I’m leaning toward the GFO but I don’t want to have to get 2 reactors. I want to use media bags in the sumps. Would either GFO work with bags?

Offline redtigeroh

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 21:57:26 »
I personally think GFO is about as perfect a phosphate remover as you will find.  The problem with GFO is it works too well, and when run properly in a reactor, tumbling correctly, it will completely remove phosphate.  It is becoming more and more evident that corals require some phosphate and nitrate.  So removing all of it can cause your system to crash.

Deven from Reef Dudes recommends that you run a very small amount of GFO and only run it temporarily to fix the problem you are having.  Then get it off the system to avoid the potential for a crash. 

I have personally used it incorrectly and packed a reactor chamber full of it and it did pretty much nothing.  If it’s not tumbling, it won’t do the job you intend for it to do, and will just bind up and be pretty worthless.  So if you do decide to use it, use less than you think you need, and only run it for a limited time.

GFO is also very expensive and I think paying such a high price for premium rust is a bit ridiculous honestly.  However, it is a tool in the toolbox, and should be used only when that tool is necessary.

Offline redtigeroh

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 22:06:06 »
Thanks Steve. Do you use it in a reactor? I’m leaning toward the GFO but I don’t want to have to get 2 reactors. I want to use media bags in the sumps. Would either GFO work with bags?

If you don’t want to run GFO in a reactor, then use a product like Chemi-Pure.  Probably Chemi-Pure Elite, which is carbon and GFO together.  Chemi-Pure Blue is carbon and a Purigen like substance.  Both could help and these may provide the phosphate reduction you need.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 07:29:03 »
If you don’t want to run GFO in a reactor, then use a product like Chemi-Pure.  Probably Chemi-Pure Elite, which is carbon and GFO together.  Chemi-Pure Blue is carbon and a Purigen like substance.  Both could help and these may provide the phosphate reduction you need.
Red, I’m using ChemiPure Elite now. It’s not enough. I’m leveled out between .12-.16 and cant get it any lower. That’s why I’m looking for a straight PO4 exporter.

Are you saying the GFO will clump if it’s in a stationary media bag laying in the sump?

Offline Warhawk937

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 08:29:24 »
Lazy sells a phosphate remover that is a liquid and causes pho4 to precipitate from the water and is then exported via skimmer.   It would allow you to control how fast you bring you phos to a level you are happy with.  I also use gfo in a reactor, but it works to well and can strip the tank completely of phos.  which is not good.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 08:31:09 »
I use rowaphos in a media bag. It took my phosphates from .15 to .02 in about 4 weeks, and I haven't changed it out yet.

It is popular for lasting a long time a requiring very little to get the job done.

I simply hang the media bag in a filter  sock.
It costs HOW much?!

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 08:38:06 »
Lazy sells a phosphate remover that is a liquid and causes pho4 to precipitate from the water and is then exported via skimmer.   It would allow you to control how fast you bring you phos to a level you are happy with.  I also use gfo in a reactor, but it works to well and can strip the tank completely of phos.  which is not good.
Ya, I’m aware of the lanthanum chloride. I just don’t like putting chemicals in the tank if I don’t have to. Although Jjoos swears by it. I want to try something a little less aggressive. Sounds like the GFO can be aggressive too...

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2018, 08:47:09 »
I use rowaphos in a media bag. It took my phosphates from .15 to .02 in about 4 weeks, and I haven't changed it out yet.

It is popular for lasting a long time a requiring very little to get the job done.

I simply hang the media bag in a filter  sock.
Great info Mike. I was hoping someone would tell their experience with rowaphos. I like the hanging bag strategy and very little media means better cost effectiveness! Thanks!

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2018, 16:30:32 »
What are your nitrates at?

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2018, 17:28:00 »
In my 75, they’re 10-20 and in my 40B they’re 5-10. I do grow macro in the 40 and not the 75.

Offline Keith92

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2018, 19:03:46 »
I have had success with GFO in a media reactor on a timer. When the gfo is fresh  I only run it a few hours. It will take a few days for it to get where you want it.  If it drops too low then just reduce the time.  As the gfo gets older you will increase the time.  It's very simple when the reactor is connected to your apex. When you get to the point that the reactor is running full time it is time to change the gfo

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 21:06:24 »
At those numbers you would technically be carbon source limited (less so with the 40) so a bit of vodka or vinager would do the trick,  or try prodibio’s bioclean it’s only once every 14 days if you don’t want to dose that often

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 10:26:35 »
Thanks for the input everyone!

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2018, 19:44:24 »
Great info Mike. I was hoping someone would tell their experience with rowaphos. I like the hanging bag strategy and very little media means better cost effectiveness! Thanks!
Mike, I found an online calculator for Rowaphos. It said to use 10 tbsp for my 75 to take the PO4 from .22 to .01. Does that sound about right to you?

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2018, 20:39:01 »
Mike, I found an online calculator for Rowaphos. It said to use 10 tbsp for my 75 to take the PO4 from .22 to .01. Does that sound about right to you?
I found it works VERY fast, almost too fast.

Are you going to use a reactor or a media bag?


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 20:42:49 »
I used the supplied bag. Slightly rinsed it in RO and then put that inside my filter sock to maximize water through it and try to catch fine particles.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2018, 20:54:30 »
I used the supplied bag. Slightly rinsed it in RO and then put that inside my filter sock to maximize water through it and try to catch fine particles.
Ok. Great. First time I used it in a reactor and went from .16 to 0 in 3 days!  Tank didn’t like that, so I got phosphates back up to .1.

For the past 5 weeks I used 3 tablespoons in a mesh bag and I’ve been at .03ish for 3 weeks now.

The amount you are using is ok, and is needed per the chart to absorb that much.

I think you will be just fine.

I test everything once a week, on Sunday.

Hey, are you in R2R?


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 21:05:50 »
How many gallons is your system?

I think I’ll test every other day just to make sure I’m not stripping the system. I guess like everything else, I’ll figure out what works best over time.

Yes I am on R2R. Same name. I just don’t post often.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 21:32:09 »
I’m about 120 gallons after rock, equipment, etc.


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Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 21:33:00 »
I’m using the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker. What are you using to test?


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 21:45:17 »
I’m about 120 gallons after rock, equipment, etc.


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Oh boy, you’re only using 3 tbsp and maintaining .03? That’s got me worried with 10 tbsp. I guess since mine is so high right now it will have to work off the excess. Just hope I didn’t overdo it.

I have a Hannah checker. It’s not ULR though.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2018, 21:53:03 »
Oh boy, you’re only using 3 tbsp and maintaining .03? That’s got me worried with 10 tbsp. I guess since mine is so high right now it will have to work off the excess. Just hope I didn’t overdo it.

I have a Hannah checker. It’s not ULR though.
If you testing every other day you can adjust!


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2018, 21:54:14 »
Thanks for the discussion! Much appreciated!

Offline mtamorrow

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Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2018, 06:30:43 »
Thanks for the discussion! Much appreciated!
Anytime!

And please post test results here!

I wanna see how it works for you.

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« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 06:59:34 by mtamorrow »
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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2018, 10:18:21 »
The first response I’m seeing is that my pH in both tanks has dropped by .13

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2018, 14:04:21 »
How are your corals looking today?


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2018, 15:01:11 »
So far, corals look normal.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2018, 15:11:37 »
That’s good!  Anxious to see your numbers tomorrow!


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2018, 18:05:45 »
There’s some interesting responses with the 2 systems. Like I mentioned before, the pH is significantly lower than normal after introducing the Rowaphos. At peak pH it’s down .07 and at the lowest time it’s down .11. Normally when this happens (the weekend when everyone’s home) I have to lower my alk dosing to keep it stable. Now the interesting part of this is that I actually had to increase my dosing today even though the pH has dropped so much. Anecdotally, that tells me that more calcification is taking place. I’m anxious to test PO4/Alk tomorrow to see if that keeps going in a positive direction.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2018, 18:36:53 »
There’s some interesting responses with the 2 systems. Like I mentioned before, the pH is significantly lower than normal after introducing the Rowaphos. At peak pH it’s down .07 and at the lowest time it’s down .11. Normally when this happens (the weekend when everyone’s home) I have to lower my alk dosing to keep it stable. Now the interesting part of this is that I actually had to increase my dosing today even though the pH has dropped so much. Anecdotally, that tells me that more calcification is taking place. I’m anxious to test PO4/Alk tomorrow to see if that keeps going in a positive direction.
Hmmmmm.  Anxious to see this play out. I don’t have Sps yet, but soon.

I’m shooting for known stability before I add sps


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2018, 17:30:54 »
Rowaphos not recommended for SPS.  Especially Montipora. I’ve even had some recession on my torch heads and my Toadstool is all closed up. On top of that, it hasn’t really helped my PO4 much. .03 at the most. I’m going to strongly consider NoPox carbon dosing or the Lanthanum Chloride. Jjoos makes a compelling argument for it.

Offline mtamorrow

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2018, 07:21:11 »
I’m really sorry you having issues.

Are you sure it’s the rowaphos?

I’ve never heard of anyone having problems with it.

I dose homemade nopox as well, 15ml per day. Nopox didn’t move my phosphates


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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Best Phosphate export?
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2018, 15:41:35 »
I’m really sorry you having issues.

Are you sure it’s the rowaphos?

I’ve never heard of anyone having problems with it.

I dose homemade nopox as well, 15ml per day. Nopox didn’t move my phosphates


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No worries Mike. Not the first time I’ve ran into hurdles in this unforgiving hobby.

I have a Toadstool & sunset Monti that has hung in there with me thru everything. The day after I put the Rowaphos in, the Toadstool & Sunset quit putting their polyps. Yesterday the Monti actually started losing flesh. In the 40, 2 montis and my pikachu that was stressed started losing flesh. The only thing I did to both tanks was add the Rowaphos. I took it out yesterday and the Monti looks a lot better today. I’ve also lost a head that was splitting on my torch. I just hope it doesn’t spread to the other heads.

I’ve read a few reviews about the NoPox not touching their PO4 but reducing nitrates. The more I read about the NoPox, the more weary I become. I’ve had Dino’s in the 40 and I’m afraid it will bring them back if I carbon dose. I’ve also had cyano in the 75 and I have the same worry there. Im thinking the lanthanum chloride is going to be my best solution.

 

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