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Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Water parameter question
« on: March 14, 2017, 21:11:56 »
Maybe I can get some other insight on my nitrate level issue, and what's going on in my tank.  I am kinda confused.....

My tank has been up and running for a year and 3 months.  I have a 130g tank, with a 40g sump.
reef octopus 200-INT skimmer
2.5" deep sand bed
weight of rock unknown
 
I don't know when my high nitrates began, but I have been fighting them for as long as I can remember.  Since the beginning, I was doing 50 gallon water changes every week.  As you can imagine, that got costly and I was flying through buckets of salt rather quickly.  Not to mention all the water I was using in order to do so.  This was weekly, and went on for roughly 2-4 months, if I recall.  During all those water changes, my nitrates never dropped.  From what I tested, they always ranged from 60-90, but again, it was based off the color chart.  I was getting worn out with the cost, as well as the manual labor of doing these water changes.  After talking to a couple reefers, they recommended that I stop for awhile.  The tank was really new, and that I wasn't leaving it to do it's thing.  Let it go, and see what happens.  So I did.  I stopped the weekly changes.

I quit stressing about it and changed the water changes to weekly, but only changing 25 gallons a week.  This didn't last very long, since I never saw any change in the nitrate levels.  So I yet decreased even more.  I then decreased the changes to bi-weekly, doing 50 gallons at a time.  I have been doing that for the last few months.  During the last couple months, I think my feeding habits were part of the issue.  I was feeding twice a day.  I have stopped that, and now feed once a day.  I've been sticking to that routine.  No one seems to be starving.  Nitrates never leave the 50-75 mark, Ever.  I mainly do water changes now to replenish the Calcium/Alk/Mag levels that my corals have used up. 

I don't have room for any more storage for water bins, or I'd do one large change and hope for the best.  So the 50 gallon change is all I have room to do, for now.

So here I am 15 months in, nitrates are stupid high, but yet I have lost nothing due to them.  Let me rephrase, I lost some corals a while back, but not sure why.  So I can't say the high trates were the issue.
I have read that one with high nitrates will have algae issues, unclear water, brownish coral, and dying coral at that.  None of which I have , or have had.  Correction, I have had diatoms and cyano, but that was it.  But that was due to the new tank syndrome.  I had weeks of diatoms, but I have been lucky to not have any more break outs of anything.  But my tank has been clear for months now.

If I have very high nitrate levels, and my corals are, or should be struggling.......then why arn't they?  I mean, I have never had a salt water tank to compare it to.  I don't know if my corals are growing at a normal speed, slow speed, or fast.  If it was up to me, they arn't growing fast enough :).  But none are changing colors that would raise a red flag.  Maybe I have hardy corals that don't care as other corals might.

Here are my corals and parameters:

Acan
Chalice
Montiporas
toadstool
frogspawn
duncan
trumpets
open brain
stylo
hammer

Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
ph - 8ish
nitrates - 75
cal - 400
alk - 8.3
mag - 1350
phosphates - undetectable
temperature - 79

livestock
(2) chalk bass
(2) percula clowns
(2) fire fish
(1) starry blenny
(1) yellow coris wrasse
(1) tomini tang
(1) randals goby
(1) red serpent sea star
scarlet hermits
snails
(1) tubeworm
(3) peppermint shrimp

If you have made it this far, after all that reading, I thank you.  But if you could chime in and tell me your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.  I don't know why my tank seems very healthy, when the nitrates say otherwise.
I have not done any dosing or extra things to get the trates lowered.  Only water changes and reduced feeding.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 21:51:00 by crankbait09 »

Offline Steve

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 21:24:51 »
How much skimate are you getting from your skimmer. Usually when I have had higher nitrates it was from overfeeding and/or underskimming.

Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 21:33:39 »
oh, and before anyone asks....I use Salifert for everything

this is from about 3 days now
3 days or so by Shawn D, on Flickr

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 21:51:14 »
Nutrients look unbalanced.  Consider adding phosphates to get something detectable and see if they disappear.  Are you bare bottom crushed coral or other sand?

That skimmer is perfect size for that system.  I've used it on a system that size barebottom and corals looked amazing.

Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 22:00:26 »
Well, I have always, always had undetectable phosphates.  I had the algae break out so I figured they had to have been there.  So I have been running GFO for about a month now.  phosphates are still undetectable so I am unsure what level they are at

I use caribsea aragonite.

I have considered a RDSB to help, but haven't started that yet.

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 22:31:56 »
If you truely have that low of phosphates you are phosphate limited and bacteria won't naturally be able to lower nitrates without them.

Not sure why waterchanges would be bad as they are the cheap compared to most things in the hobby.  Im also getting a feeling your test kit may be bad if you never noticed a drop in nitrate while doing changes.  Example: test nitrates, do a 25% change and test again.  Nitrates should lower by 25%

Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 22:43:26 »
well, I have bought two salifert kits over time thinking the same thing.  They read the same.
I have tested phosphates with salifert, as well as Hanna, and both come back with 0

maybe I will take my water in to a LFS and see if they can test it for me to see what kind of reading they get, compared to mine.

does water temperature effect that reading?

Offline Grymtooth

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 00:00:05 »
Out of mild curosity, have you also looked into the marine pure or brightwell bricks?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 07:38:15 »
I have thought about those bricks.  I've talked to a few people that have used them, I believe I posted a thread on here about them as well.  I got mixed responses and that's a decent chunk of change to spend on a "hope it works" method.  I watched the videos on Marine depot or BRS (one of them), it seems as if it works.  But arn't these a band aid to the problem?

I'd like to get rid of them for good, but have no clue what the source is.  In my mind, I'm thinking it's the lack of sand, maybe rock.  But without knowing pound for pound what I originally put in the DT, I really have no clue if I have nearly enough.  Sand, I planned for a 3" sand bed, but stopped at 2"-2.5".  I have a number of bags left, which has me thinking about a RDSB. 

So in a nut shell, yes, I have thought about the bricks.  Not out of the question

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 09:20:35 »
Personally I would remove the rock from the sump except maybe one chuck that's fist size leave it bare bottom and add a big clump of cheato.  It looks like a detritus trap.  I would also Skim a bit wetter

Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 09:31:20 »
I had chaeto in there but couldn't keep it alive for the life of me, so I removed it.  I tried that for months.

wetter?  How do you adjust that?

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 11:36:50 »
Close the gate valve to raise the water level in the skimmer maybe an inch.  Also make sure there are no restrictions on the air line and inside the venturi.  Sometimes deposits  builds up in the Venturi.

What light did you use on the cheato?

Offline Reef Tank 2.0

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 11:41:10 »
I used a couple different lights at different times.  I went from a work light housing with an LED grow light bulb, I tried an LED grow light from ebay, and I tried the work light housing with a cfl twisty bulb.  Nothing survived.  Let me rephrase, the twisty bulb period did survive but it promoted algae growth, so I got rid of that in a hurry.

Offline thepipbull

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 17:16:06 »
Hey Crank when it comes to the chemistry it can be very frustrating at times especially when everyone's tanks are so different.  As long everything is looking good don't try and do to much to soon. I think this gets a lot of reefers into more issues and they are continually trying fix things....

this is a very good read everyone should check out.......the most important thing to take from this is nitrates and phosphates aren't zero

http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.295215/?utm_source=newsletter_1&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=March_14_2017

Also think Joel was on to something with your Nutrients look unbalanced.
Check out this video


http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/faq-42-what-is-the-relation-between-nitrates-and-phosphates/

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 17:50:41 »
you beat me to the BRS video lol.  What are the odds it was released today...

Offline thepipbull

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2017, 17:54:43 »
I know right
Any updates to your fish room build

Offline joelbegt

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Re: Water parameter question
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2017, 18:13:30 »
Not really, about 1-2months from moving in.  After we move in I will need to save to finish the basement and aquarium build.  For now I'm working on a nice temporary setup to hold be over

 

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