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Author Topic: Calcium precipitation  (Read 9251 times)

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Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2017, 19:16:16 »
I have been brainstorming on everyone’s suggestions and my thoughts are below. Please comment if I am missing something.
1. I am currently dosing 340 mL of BRS alk soda ash. Everyone agrees that is excessive for my 65g water volume.
2. When I make a 20mL adjustment up or down to this dosing regimen, I automatically see a corresponding change in my dKh the next day. Vice versa with Calc dosing. If I am precipitating all the solution over “X mL”, why do I still see a change in my test numbers?
3. What are some thoughts on trying a 2 part cut in dosing. Say 50mL cut to each. Will I just see alk/Calc drop relatively?
4. Doc said he has a 400g tank and only doses 180mL. Wouldn’t that make sense because he has so much more water volume. With my relatively small water volume versus the amount of coral I have, I’m thinking that my consumption would be more drastic and feed the need to dose more.

Thoughts appreciated.

Offline Heinbaughb

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2017, 10:31:43 »
I’m not an expert at all but would a large maybe 50% or greater water change be an option? That would allow  all of your levels to reset and come back to a natural balance? Then proceed to figure out a modified dosing schedule from there.


120 gallon mixed reef.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2017, 15:40:00 »
I did a 20% last weekend. I keep my parameters in line with my salt mix. So, no noticeable change other than the Mg going up by about 50 points. Dosing requirements stayed the same.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2017, 20:09:44 »
Update:
Finally seen some significant changes today and this evening after having the Scrubber offline.
Max pH was 8.2.
Even though I backed the alk dosing off by 20mL yesterday, it still tested 10.02 today. Calc was still 450. So, I backed of 40 mL of each. That puts my alk at 290mL & Calc at 400mL. Mg was up to 1380. So, it looks like I’m headed in the direction I was expecting, finally.

Offline CoralBeauties

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2017, 21:29:07 »
If you stop dosing for 1 day.... lets say you test a 6pm today and then test tomorrow at 6pm. How much does each level drop? That should be how much your daily dose needs to be.

Way back when i was first adding two part i was hand dosing a 1/2 gallon of each a day. It wasn't until i got a doser and started to use the BRS calculators before i really got a handle on what the tank was actually using. Prior to that i think it was just binding with its self and making "sand" plus i was going through a lot of pumps the extra 2 part forms on the heated motors and shafts causing issues.
I think at your current levels of alk and cal you would be fine to not dose for a day.  My tank was getting alittle bit high for me with my alk at 10 and I shut off my co2 reactor for 24 hours last night and my level only dropped to 9.3 and I have alot of sps.
Jeff

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2017, 22:21:42 »
 When you’re doing your calculations for how much to reduce or add with the BRS calculator. Do you use 65 gallon?

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2017, 09:47:10 »
Yes, 65g is my approximate water volume. However, I only used the calculator when I first started dosing. Now, I make adjustments based on what my testing shows.
Example.... since the alk was at 10 due to the low pH yesterday, I decided that a 30mL drop in dosing should bring me down to the 8.5-9.0 range today.

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2017, 12:38:13 »
 Anxious to see changes. Hopefully itcontinues to go in the right direction. I did look up the gas furnaces after we talked last night and I guess they commonly have air intake from outside.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2017, 13:10:29 »
I appreciate you brainstorming with me yesterday. I think things are looking in the right direction. I’m watching the Corals closely to see what effect the lower pH might have. I’m thinking I might just run the Scrubber on the weekends when everyone is home.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2017, 21:32:11 »
Update:
Very big change today.
Today’s testing (after dropping the dosing yesterday) was still
10.74 Alk
500 Calc
1360 Mg
The pH maxed out at only 8.15 today. That is a lot lower than I want to see it. The Corals we’re a little subdued with polyp extension but the colors still look good. So I dropped the alk dosing by 40 to 250 and dropped the Calc dosing 80 to 300.
I’m only using the skimmer for 8 hours a day.
I’m going to see what happens through the week and possibly just use the Scrubber on the weekends.

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2017, 22:51:00 »
Based on the numbers consider pausing dosing alk:ca allowing them to fall back to your set range.  It may take 12-24 hours.  After getting your levels to normal consider starting with 100ml alk and calcium and going up/down from there.

Can you set up your CO2 scrubber to only kick on when pH is less than 8.1?
Maybe that allow you to get a more consistent pH, address your low pH concern, and avoid any precipitation.  Maybe do it like a heater so it’s not kicking on and off constantly. For example on at 8.05, off at 8.1.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2017, 09:28:30 »
So you don’t think the quicker change would have a negative effect on the corals?

Yes I’ve considered doing that with the skimmer. My only reservation is something getting in the pump and it turns on and damages the pump when I’m not there. I may make a sponge for the intake to eliminate that possibility. For now, I think I’ll continue using the skimmer from 6:30a-4p. I actually hooked the Scrubber up before work this morning just to try to get a little bit better pH this afternoon. Thank you for the input!

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2017, 09:40:50 »
When my alk, Cal or Mag level creeps up I stop dosing to let it slowly and naturally fall back down. You mentioned putting the scrubber back on-line today to increase PH but when it was offline for past couple days it had begun correcting the issues. Just trying to understand the reason for that. Are you saying your okay with the precipitation and willing to accept the issues that come along with it for the higher PH? If your not then consider taking it offline and keeping it offline until your issue is completely corrected for a couple weeks. Then begin to plan how you can incorporate the scrubber to increase the low end of the PH without affecting the high end PH where the precipitation occurs. For example with an inexpensive solenoid valve that will let you switch between room air vs scrubbed air.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2017, 10:56:35 »
Ok. I’ll shut the dosing down right now.

When I got up this morning (5:40a) the pH was 7.8. Remember, I only run the skimmer 6:30a-4p. Well before my pH is over 8.2. But, with our current investigation ongoing, I get what you’re saying and I will shut the skimmer/Scrubber down right now as well. That low pH just makes my stomach turn...
Thanks Brian. I’ll post numbers later this evening.

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2017, 13:53:39 »
hahaha I know you want perfection. I think you will get there and in the process we are all going to learn how to stabilize our PH.  :) What time do your lights come on/off?
Does the scrubber connect to the air intake of skimmer? Or is there an air pump that you use to push air through the scrubber? I am not familiar with C02 scrubbers.

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2017, 16:27:17 »
Lights start their ramp at 9a. Full power 10:30a-7p. Ramp down to 9:30p. The peak pH is usually at 7:30p.

Scrubber output is connected to skimmer air intake. Basically the same as running your skimmer air line out the window. From what I have observed, fresh air works better and faster than the Scrubber. I believe the media still allows CO2 to pass through. 

Now my test results today, as I’m not sure what I should do going forward.

pH has flatlined at 8.03 since I turned the skimmer/scubber off this morning
Alk=9.24
Ca=450
Mg=1410

Dosing is still offline. What do you suggest I do at this point?

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2017, 21:25:15 »
Perfect, turn dosing back on now at a rate of 150ml over 24 hours for both alk and calcium. You can adjust from there tomorrow night once you see where levels are. You can power down magnesium for 24 hours and check tomorrow night to see if it’s ready to go back online.

Offline docsky

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2017, 10:35:42 »
This might be a silly question but did you calibrate your doser?  What i am wondering is if you doser says its pumping 150 mils but in reality it might only be dosing 70 mils or something. One way to test this is to get a measuring cup and fill it and see if the amount in the cup matches what the doser is set to.

Offline docsky

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2017, 10:36:49 »
Never mind I see that was the first thing you tested for in your first post!

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2017, 21:15:40 »
Update:
My alk was dropping so fast yesterday that by 6:30p, I had to make a decision before getting a response here on the forum.
Alk was down to 8.45. So, I turned the dosing back on at 150mL/day both alk & calc. Skimmer was off all night. I was thinking about what Lazy said about leveling pH so I decided to turn the skimmer/Scrubber on at 6:30a. I monitored the pH while I was at work and at 1:30p the pH hit 8.1 so I turned it off. Got home and did my testing at the normal time....
8.45    430      1350
Nice numbers for ball parking the dosing at 150mL. With that being said, my pH maxed at 7pm at 8.2. Perfect number I was trying to hit. The alk is a little lower than I like so I bumped the alk up 10mL to 160mL/day. I am going to follow the exact routine tonight and tomorrow and hopefully this will be dialed in to where I want it all to be.....

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2017, 23:10:18 »
That’s great to hear :)

Offline SweetReefOH

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2017, 20:45:20 »
Last Update:
Came home and everything tested exactly where I want it.
Alk 9.01
Ca. 430
Mg 1280 (dosed Mg up)
pH maxed out at exactly 8.2

In summary, the high pH was definitely what was causing the precip/higher consumption. I’ve put my skimmer/Scrubber on a schedule so that I can get a consistent 8.2 daily pH with the lower end only falling to 7.9.

I want to give a big thanks to Brian for working closely with me through this. Humphrey and Wall Tank, thank you for your suggestions and brainstorming. All of your comments really got my brain working. Thanks to everyone else for their curiousity and comments!

Case closed....

Offline Agame43

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2017, 21:09:51 »


  great to see that you worked through this, I think maybe we all learned something, thanks for posting your information.

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2017, 23:15:57 »
Good deal glad it worked out. :)

 

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