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Author Topic: Calcium precipitation  (Read 1828 times)

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Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2017, 12:18:34 »
How do you mix you two part?   What is the calcium chloride to water ratio?

Iíve Not looked into the DOS,  how does it add the two part?  Do the both feed at the same time?  What is the feed rate?   Have you verified the feed rate vs the actual output?
The BRS CaChl tells you to mix 2.5 cups into 1g if water. I use distilled.

The DOS is basically 2 separate pumps in one unit. You have a Fusion interface that allows to to set interval times. You tell it how much you want it to dose in that interval and it calculates how many mLís it will dose and it what time frame. Like every 12 minutes it will dose XXmLís. I was wondering if the dosing was off so I took a medicine cup and put it under the dosing tube and checked a couple times. It was dead on...

With all things stable and the required dosing to maintain Calc so high, Iím wondering if the BRS CaChl powder is not diluted somehow. That is really the only thing left that makes sense at this point. I have a new container of CaChl and just mixed a new batch. Iím going to add it today and then monitor Calc over the next day to see if anything changes.

Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2017, 12:19:39 »
Adding the pump was more for alkalinity percepation. Regarding strength, your using the powder to mix it yourself at 2.5 cups per gallOn? If yes no strength issue. I would wait another day to see if any change in alk. If not take the co2 scrubbers offline to see if that is issue. If it is then consider bring it back online with less media and only one of them.
Alk dosing has not changed either since adding the pump.

Offline Lazylivin

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2017, 14:33:59 »
 itís pharmaceutical grade calcium chloride.  So thereís no dilution, pure calcium. What we do know is itís precipitating due to multuple damage pumps, hard sand and carbonate buildup on equipment.  At this point I am leaning toward higher pH  from CO2 scrubbers as the likely culprit. Taking them offline for a week or two would be a good test.


Offline Wall_Tank

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2017, 15:58:02 »
The addition of the Ca part, should not cause precipitation. Do you see white cloudiness when the Ca solution is added? Ca precipitation is normally caused by high localized pH when the Alk portion is added. What is your pH running?  If you have high pH, then Soda Ash is not what you want to be dosing, you should be dosing Baking Powder based product.

How are you burning up pumps? Are your lines becoming blocked? You do have the output of the dosing lines above water.....dripping into the sump.

Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2017, 18:32:47 »
The addition of the Ca part, should not cause precipitation. Do you see white cloudiness when the Ca solution is added? Ca precipitation is normally caused by high localized pH when the Alk portion is added. What is your pH running?  If you have high pH, then Soda Ash is not what you want to be dosing, you should be dosing Baking Powder based product.

How are you burning up pumps? Are your lines becoming blocked? You do have the output of the dosing lines above water.....dripping into the sump.
No. There is no white cloudiness when I dose Ca.
My pH daily swing is 8.05 - 8.4 during the week and lower on the weekends when everyone is home.
I believe the pumps got clogged when my Mg dropped to 1000. It could have been low for a couple weeks. I noticed a gradual increase in the amount of Ca I had to dose to keep it at 380-400. I was only testing Mg about every 2 weeks at that time. The precip built up really bad on a return pump and on the inside of my flow pumps. Causing the impeller to stick inside the spindle therefore causing the pumps to overheat and burn out/motor freeze. Luckily my skimmer is a beast and powered right through it. I took it apart Friday and cleaned it. There was calcite build up everywhere. Iíve been keeping my eye on the heater, skimmer and Iím not seeing any Ca buildup. Also, the sand is not clumping anymore. So, I am assuming that I am past that type of Ca precipitation.

Offline Agame43

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2017, 21:03:20 »


" Ca precipitation is normally caused by high localized pH when the Alk portion is added" (Wall Tank) - Interesting, I run high pH as well but the only place I see precipitation is at the air inlet hose to my skimmer and the air inlet hose is plumbed to a window for fresh air. I need to clean the skimmer inlet once a month for B/U. I run the ESV 2 Part in my system.

  Following

Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2017, 21:34:33 »
Your high ph system was the first thing I thought about when WT mentioned that. Iím glad you popped in with your experience.

As Brian suggested earlier, I think Iím gonna take the Scrubber offline for a bit to see what happens. I have to wait until next weekend though because I know my dosing is going to change drastically and I want to be home to monitor it.

Offline Humphrey

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2017, 21:45:33 »
Is that a 75 gal?  Your tank is beautiful, but 360 ml is 6 DKH/day ALK-  highest Iíve ever heard of is 5/day though I am sure there are much higher in the world.  Maybe Lazyís 125?

I definitely not a chemist, but I think itís too much ALK and calcium together.  Both together at these levels are precipitating each other with your relatively high PH an consequential lowered supersaturation?

Donít want to subscribe to something that would screw up your tank, but what would your tank fall in a day if you didnít dose for a day?  This should be your maintenance amount employing the BRS reef calculator (google).  Put in your desired level and current level and dose both parts at the same amount.

If itís too scary to break for a day, since calcium now 400, consider going to 2 ALK points per day (100ml in 75 each calcium and ALK) or something more conservative.

Iíve done a lot of everything with successes and failures so Iíd certainly welcome so other input here but that 360ml ALK seems too high too.


Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2017, 10:02:20 »
Is that a 75 gal?  Your tank is beautiful, but 360 ml is 6 DKH/day ALK-  highest Iíve ever heard of is 5/day though I am sure there are much higher in the world.  Maybe Lazyís 125?

I definitely not a chemist, but I think itís too much ALK and calcium together.  Both together at these levels are precipitating each other with your relatively high PH an consequential lowered supersaturation?

Donít want to subscribe to something that would screw up your tank, but what would your tank fall in a day if you didnít dose for a day?  This should be your maintenance amount employing the BRS reef calculator (google).  Put in your desired level and current level and dose both parts at the same amount.

If itís too scary to break for a day, since calcium now 400, consider going to 2 ALK points per day (100ml in 75 each calcium and ALK) or something more conservative.

Iíve done a lot of everything with successes and failures so Iíd certainly welcome so other input here but that 360ml ALK seems too high too.
Humphrey, I appreciate your insight and your compliment on the DT.
I donít know if Iím the only one using a CO2 scrubber but Iíd like to know if someone else has experienced high Ďpresumedí consumption while having one online. I will say that just prior to adding the Scrubber, my consumption was roughly 40-50 mL/day. When I added the Scrubber (and probably 15 more SPS) the dosing just gradually went up and up. I was stable right before the Mg drop that caused all the problems. My max pH is only 8.4 and I only get it that high maybe once a week. Most of the time itís around 8.32 max. Comparing that to Agames daily 8.4 only adds more confusion. Unless there is an unintended consequence with the CO2 media. However, I have not read that anywhere. I do know that my pH will drop to approximately 7.75-8.0 daily swing when I do. Weíll know more this weekend when I take it offline.

As far as taking the dosing offline, I am too afraid of the alk/Calc drop and messing things up even more...

Offline Humphrey

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2017, 12:58:26 »
Slow is almost always best anyway :).  Best do one thing at a time anyway.

It will be interesting to see when you take the scrubber off-line. 

If it doesn't work you can always try something else, and I don't think there's any harm with the precep other than a more frequent vinegar bath for your mechanicals.

There is a "where is my precipitation coming from" by Randy Homes Farley somewhere out there, and he's got some threads in R2R for high calcium uses.



Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2017, 14:41:18 »
I read some forums that he posted on today. Once I understood that precipitation cannot escape into the atmosphere (thanks Brian) but will always attack heaters and pumps, I am anxious to get the pH lowered. RHF said significant coral growth and significant precipitate occur at pH 8.4 and above. I do not want to be replacing $300 worth of pumps for the little bit of growth I may gain.

When I get home, Iím turning the skimmer off. I also have undetectable nutrients so this will kill two birds with one stone. Iíll turn it back on when I go to bed and turn it off again when I leave for work. We will see what happens to consumption/precip tomorrow

Offline Agame43

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2017, 22:35:14 »


If moving slow is what we are suppose to be good at would you just reduce your media in the scrubber by say 1/2 - 2/3 and wait that change out to get an idea of maybe where this may end? Taking it all off line seems abrupt to some extent? My pH peak average this past week has been 8.45 daily. Keep us posted, good luck!!!

Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2017, 10:00:55 »
I did. I took 1 canister that was almost spent offline. Other canister is still full. I left my window cracked as it has been for a couple months and I only turned the skimmer off overnight. It will be on until I get home and check alk/calc.

Offline Reeferntraining

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2017, 19:38:07 »
Update:
Skimmer only on from 6:30a-4p
pH topped out at 8.31

Alk stable with no change needed to dosing. Daily still 340 mL

Calc 470. Backed dosing off 60mL again to total daily of 440mL

Mg at 1290-dosed 4oz 2part

I am going to leave the skimmer off through tonight as well. One positive in this is my phos was up to .08 today.

Offline docsky

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Re: Calcium precipitation
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2017, 10:40:59 »
Not sure if it adds any value but I run a 400g SPS system loaded with corals most colonies are larger than a basketball. I also have 3 5"-7" clams and i run around 180 Mils of each of both ALK and Cal a day.
My 2 part is mixed to the BRS standard strength.

 

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