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Author Topic: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?  (Read 7698 times)

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Offline Viggen

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#$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« on: February 14, 2012, 21:57:04 »
Well.... purchased the yellow belly hep tang & thinking he was healthy & ich resistant I was wrong :(  I thought I removed him in time but just realized my harlequin tusk & kole tang have ich.......

Adding insult to injury I added the 5 or so new fish to the tank.....

Is there anything I can do for ich treatment in a FOWLR?  I really don't want to have to remove every rock & buy/setup  a larger QT system..... any thoughts on anything that works?
300g tub o fish

Offline buckeyereefer

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 22:15:48 »
has been said many many many times before. QT ALL fish before placing them in your DT regardless of were they came from.
what else is in tank invert's and coral wise ??   

Offline HUNGER

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 22:18:02 »
u can run copper
SIZE DOES MATTER

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 23:27:24 »
bubble tip anemone.... blue leg hermets & some snails that the tusk is eating

anthelia I think it's called.... like xenia

Yes... trying to figure out what to do on a QT setup, I need something different then what I was going to use. 
300g tub o fish

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2012, 08:14:12 »
How bad is it?

He probably was able to supress ich, but when he changed enviroments it came out... it may go away as he settles in, unless him and the other fish aren't getting along

as for QT

Cheapo bio wheel filter from walmart, heater, and an air stone w/pump... You can use a clean plain ol' rubber maid tote if you need something in a pinch and dont have a smaller tank...

1.09 salinity, monitor the PH closely...

Change the water every 2-3 days, or as needed; keep the PH the same.

Feed every day, supplement garlic if it isn't already present in current food... If you want you can also use copper but follow directions closely when using a rubber maid or other smaller tank.
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Offline HUNGER

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 08:16:39 »
u can run copper
bubble tip anemone.... blue leg hermets & some snails that the tusk is eating

anthelia I think it's called.... like xenia

Yes... trying to figure out what to do on a QT setup, I need something different then what I was going to use. 
ya no copper there
SIZE DOES MATTER

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 09:09:08 »
So nothing I can add to my tank now works.... my HArlequin Tusk is covered with the ich.... so I know everyone is going to get it.

Should I at least try one of the reef safe treatments?  I was thinking of hitting Jack's or Gerbers to see if they have anything available. 

This is what I have to catch

Harlequin Tusk -8ish in
Yellow eye kole tang
Blond naso male tang
naso tang
flame angel
bicolor angel
pr maroon clowns
lawnmower/starry blenny
sargassum trigger

If there is nothing I can do with them in my tank I was planning on buying a 90g tank & set that up as QT.  I have a extra wet/dry filter & I can yank a bunch of bio-balls from my other tank....
300g tub o fish

Offline buckeyereefer

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 09:35:34 »
 it seems as though all those treatments are just a band aid for awhile. eventually the ich comes back from other posts on different forums. 

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 09:51:04 »
ahh...... maybe it might buy me some time to setup a proper QT tank?  Tusk has it pretty bad & I bet I will not have time to have the tank setup completely by Saturday. 

Talked to the wife & 4ft is all the room I have for a QT tank.... off to go shopping for a 90g & metal stand.  Due to the fish I have I think I will go reef ready with it & use my extra wet/dry. 

I just have 400 ish lbs of LR to remove from the tank before I can get the fish out.  I rigged together a divider which will allow me to keep the fish at one end of the tank

I will probably just dose coppersafe copper..... I have always used it in the past..... overdoseing isn't bad with the stuff
300g tub o fish

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 10:00:26 »
Set up your QT first... with that many fish you may want to consider a few smaller tanks as opposed to othe one 90... as space gets small the fish are going to get more stressed making the ich worse... besides I would bet 5 or so 20-30ish plumbed together would be cheaper than doing up a 90... QT doesn't need to be elaborate either.

Once you have your QT set up, use the clubs fish trap and start catching them and putting them in the QT, you may not even have to touch the rock if it works for you...


If you want/need help let me know.
God is great, Beer is good, and People are crazy...

Life is a beach, I'm just playing in the sand.


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Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 10:13:55 »
great info!!!  Do they sell the smaller tanks reef ready? 

I am going to look at tanks in a few minutes and see what I can find/work out...... just get ideas

Not all of the new fish are eating very well yet.... would the trap still work?
300g tub o fish

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 10:26:27 »
I heard one of the jacks stores was selling their old display tanks/racks... wanna say it was like $200 for a 4 tank rack... not sure if they still have any though... think I saw it on cincy reef, may be worth looking at... as they would all be ready to be plumbed, if not already.

Most small tanks dont come "reef ready" but we could pump out some holes, easily, club has hole saws for premium membs aswell...

The trap should still work, though them being attracted to food would increase the chances of you catching them... the food does not catch them, just entices them to enter... I would imagine that over the course of the day some fish may be curious enough to find them selfs in it without the use of food.

Unfortunately with Ich it's a time game... I would advise supplementing garlic into his diet, and look into QT'ing him for the time being, even if it is something as simple as a rubber maid tote, heater, and air stone... less than $30 bucks would get him in a QT today with those components, and allow you time to get something more permanent setup.

You can fore go the bio wheel filter so long as you do atleast a 20% water change every day till you get a filter or get the more permanent setup together.
God is great, Beer is good, and People are crazy...

Life is a beach, I'm just playing in the sand.


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/boonjob-s-reef-tank

Offline buckeyereefer

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 10:56:30 »
 what if you just put the rock in couple smaller tanks or tubs ? leave fish in the big tank and run them thru a Hypo treatment ?

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 11:40:06 »
I do have a extra 125g Rubbermaid tub I could use for all the lr. I can't fit it in my house but possibly garage for the LR.  Is that a quicker treatment for ich vs removing all fish and doing qt. 


I am worried catching/moving the new fish could be to stressful for them.
300g tub o fish

Offline buckeyereefer

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 11:47:47 »
 it would be pretty much the same. you would be seperating fish from rock that way. alot larger tank would be less stressful on all fish.
just my thinking and opinion. 

Offline Blown76mav

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 12:01:40 »
I would remove the rock and corals and treat the big tank. Also you will probably want to get some PVC elbows and small pipes so the fish have some place to hide and sleep.  You didn't put the new fish in yet I hope.  I know when I was down you were concerened about this, sorry to see it take a turn for the worse.  I have a 125g rubbermaid stock tub if you need to borrow it as well.

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 12:38:37 »
Talked to wife..... hypo it is..... that will be a lot easier & allow me more time to setup a proper QT system

Been sick with a 5 day virus for crap.... 10 days now (my 100yr old grandfather had it for 5 days) thus not thinking all that great & dumb @$$ me yea I looked at the fish in my main tank & they looked totally fine, didn't see any ich or anything on them so I added all the fish that I purchased.  The next day (yesterday) I see the tusk is covered...... $&^$ $ ^$ %^ $ ^$ ^$ % %* ^&* %$# %# % $ & &*(  my wife was like what's wrong....

So how do I do the hypo treatment?  Do I just drop it down to .009 quickly or do I have to do it over time?  Is this the same 1 month treatment then slowly bring it back up to .02#

Since there will be no LR should I do a daily 50-60 gallon water change?  Every 2-3 days or what? 

I have a few 4in PVC pieces laying around that I will use to give them a place to hide

300g tub o fish

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 12:56:40 »
If you are going to do hypo in your large tank... why would you pull the rock?

your anemone and inverts most likely wont survive it if there not pulled though.

your anemone is going to need light during the month+ ich treatment.

If you decide to dose copper, your substrate(if you have any) and silicone on your dt will adsorb it.


Pulling all the rock is going to stress them out just as much as putting them in a new tank, if not more so.


Not that either method is right or wrong, I just personally dont see how pulling all the rock is going to help or be beneficial.

on the up side if you leave the rock in and hypo you shouldn't have any aiptasia left(if you had any to begin with)....


They can go right into Hypo, though I have always done 20 min at a half way mark before dropping em into full 1.009... Example if I run normally at 1.026 I do a 20-40 min bath in 1.016-1.018, before going into 1.009... though you could go straight into 1.009...

Them coming out of it takes days though... you would want to only raise the sg .002-.003 a day when bringing them out of it.

***Pulling all of the rock is going to leave you with little filtration... If needed I wouldn't want to be doing constant water changes on your tank lol. I am sorry a few smaller tanks with hypo and just the fish in them seems more practical to me

« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 13:04:57 by Boonjob »
God is great, Beer is good, and People are crazy...

Life is a beach, I'm just playing in the sand.


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Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 14:19:24 »
This is just so relaxing  :P

I went to Jack & purchased a bottle of no-ich.  Reef safe ich treatment.... half a bottle treated my tank & the bottle cost me $45  :nervous:   Suppose to dose daily until spots are gone then every other day untill they are gone then 3-5 treatment after they are gone.  Obviously I am not going to do that, my hope was that this would buy me a little more time untill I get whatever else I am going to do worket out...... temporary bandaid

Jack's has 55g tanks non reef ready for about $120 & a metal stand for $120.  If I went that route I could use 2 55's on the stand, make a internal wet/dry & also use the pengin bio-wheel filter I have laying around.  It would take me a while to make the wet/dry thus probably only use the bio-wheel on the tanks.  I looked at the smaller tanks & it seems like the 55's might be cheaper & easier, I could always just throw a baffle in the middle of the to make 4 22.5 g tanks.....

The Hypo route with fish in main tank I wuld put everything in a tub with a pair of 250w MH's so everything would still get some light... anemone's etc.....  I would not dose copper..... only way I will do copper is if I go the QT route with the 55's or whatever I get.  Tanks is also acrylic so no silicone to worry about but yea... substrate would be a issue thus no copper.

Any other thoughts/concerns??  To either method & thoughts on which way to go.  I was worried about lack of filtration with the LR being gone so it's doing a 60g water change daily in the 475g or I would think similar water changes to the two 55's since the filter will be starting from day 1


O yea.... zero aptasia
300g tub o fish

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 15:33:33 »
I forgot you had an acrylic tank... I think either way is a step in the right direction...

I was just curious why you would pull all the rock... Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from coral, there really should be no need to pull the rock... the nitrfying bacteria on the rock is not salt specific... the salinity should have minimal effects on the live rock's bio filter... unless you have lots of crawlies inside it, I personally wouldn't pull it just for hypo... copper is a different story...

if you have the extra lights and somewhere to put your bubble tip and inverts, I would go that route as it seems easier than trying to speed track a QT together... having to pull 400#'s of LR changes my personally outlook on this though, in which case tearing down half a tank of that size instead of putting up a smaller tank starts to out weigh each other.



God is great, Beer is good, and People are crazy...

Life is a beach, I'm just playing in the sand.


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/boonjob-s-reef-tank

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 17:57:32 »
So would I need to remove all the crabs?  & snails that my tusk kills a few daily.... not sure I have any of the original 50 left.... they arrived last friday



It would be easy to setup a tank with the anemone & whatever else I need..... not removing any rock sounds like a huge relief.  Due to being sick I think removing 400#'s is like moving #2000 lbs when I am healthy.  Heck.... I clean off about a 1ft square spot on the front of the tank & need to sit down & take a breather.... hope I am not getting pneumonia
300g tub o fish

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 18:25:59 »
I personally think your rock will be just fine... you may have slight die off as some critters you missed may not make it, but if you are doing w/c it should be ok, and I dont think it would be significant, but mayhaps someone else would like to chime in... you will probably have alot of bristle worm activity as they don't like brackish water, but they are on the list of critters who should make it; the last time I moved a tank I had a bunch of them that came out into the bottom of a bucket and they were still alive in that bucket 2 weeks later when I came back to it, and there was only a trickle of water in the bottom of that bucket...

Any invertebrates that you leave behind will most likely perish, you may have a few suvivors but you will most likely loose the majority of them if you leave them in.

To be sure, try running your tank at half salinity like 1.016 and see if any of your perimeters jump... namely ammonia,trites,trates,phates. If they don't budge go to 1.012 on day 2. if no budge drop down to 1.009... Just watch your PH closely, when you drop your salinity that low you loose the stability you had... keep oxygen on it... your skimmer might not skim or well but keep it on.

God is great, Beer is good, and People are crazy...

Life is a beach, I'm just playing in the sand.


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/boonjob-s-reef-tank

Offline Boonjob

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 19:04:42 »
So I did some looking up on the nitrfying bacteria... it seems there are only 2 strains that are interchangable with marine and fresh... the remaining are a marine subtype only... with that being stated you won't be using fresh water, but actually brackish for the hypo... It appears anything under 1.015 can put some of the bacteria into a dormant state, but they are still much alive... 1.005 seems to be the kill point for some of the nytrifying bacteria....

I have read mixed articles on the matter. I have read people who said they did it and everything was fine and alot of others who say not to do it, but don't list why or that they have ever tried...

Obviously your bristle worms and population inside the rocks will most likely perish... So the main concern would be if a majority of your bacteria does go dormant past 1.015 you may not have enough left to eat up the die off from the invertebrates, which could raise your level of ammonia in the tank...


If it was my tank I would probably try it, but knowing what I do now, I would rather not advise you to proceed w/ leaving the rock in... So I'd have to say try to pull the rock or make the decision to leave it, and lower the sg slowly and watch the perimeters closely...

I have always extruded the fish from the tank to do the hypo... I have done it a hand ful of times now and had no deaths and great results... never attempted it in the tank though w/live rock... I just know to get critters out of your rock you can soak em in freash water(which I have) and the critters dont like it and they leave the rock, and i have never noticed any ill effects on the rock, but i also have never left them in for any significant duration. usualy only a 10 min dip when chaning up tanks.


God is great, Beer is good, and People are crazy...

Life is a beach, I'm just playing in the sand.


http://www.ustream.tv/channel/boonjob-s-reef-tank

Offline Viggen

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 20:51:08 »
Is just a normal elcheapo salinity tester ok? Remember reading they aren't accurate..... some state they are...... I dunno

After adding that no ich stuff the fish are doing a lot better.  Going to give me a bit more time to get this worked out before I go the hypo route.  I hope it will slow me to wait until sat or Sunday to start the treatment.

Good thing I just ordered 5 200g boxes of salt :) 

300g tub o fish

Offline Twizted1

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Re: #$% always QT - what to do for ich treatment?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 20:58:14 »
I read on hear you was looking for tanks. I was just in aquatic specialist tonight & they have tons of tanks. Most are drilled. Just though I would let you know.

 

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