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Author Topic: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....  (Read 3780 times)

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MechanicalEngineer

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Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« on: March 31, 2008, 21:01:46 »
So, when Will and I went out of town (during which we got engaged...yay!), we had another saltwater friend watch our tank.  (Go ahead...gasp....)

I came home, everything looked fine.  A couple of days later, my Monti Caps started looking funny like they usually do when the alkalinity gets low.  Ok, fine.  I tested the alkalinity, and it came back at 6.4 dKh or 2.57 mg/l.  Not good.  I did a 10% water change, and retested.  Same thing.  I made 3 gallons of limewater (which is what the online chemistry calculator said I needed to bring it back up to 12 dkh) and dripped it over two days.

I went down to Sean's to pick up some nice new frags.  Came home, tested the water...NO CHANGE IN ALKALINITY!!!  I had no choice, so the frags went in.  One cap didn't make it, and the other cap is struggling.  I dripped another gallon of limewater...tested it...and I'm only up to 7.2 dkh.  My calcium is getting too high, so I'm scared to do anything other than water changes.  But, this just doesn't make sense...why isn't my alk going up?  I'm horrible at chemistry. 

60g total volume

Here's what my tests show:

Calcium:  550  Red Sea
Alk:  7.2 dkh or 2.57 mg/l  Salifert
PH:  8.2  API
Nitrite:  0  API
Nitrate: 0  API
Ammonia:  0  API
Phosphate:  0  Salifert

Yeah, I'm a horrible person and don't have a Mag test.  I know that influences, but I'm not sure how.

Thanks!
Nikki

Bwlr

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 21:15:44 »
You can use baking soda to raise your alk.

Regular baking soda will lower the pH but raise your alk.
Baked baking soda will raise the pH and raise your alk.


To bake it, dump a box on a cookie sheet and bake in the oven at 300 for 30 minutes. That drives off the CO2.

I don't remember the proportions...
I'll see if I can find a link...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 21:19:47 by Bwlr »

Offline verper

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2008, 21:16:53 »
You can't use kalkwasser.  It has the exact amounts of both alk and calc.  Your calc is too high and you need to add only alk.  Make up some of Randy's two part (alk only) and use that to get the two in balance.  They don't have to be exactly in balance, but if they get too far off, one will override the other.  So, your calcium is keeping your alk down if that makes sense.


MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 21:22:40 »
Ah...wonderful.  Of all the things with reefkeeping, I can't ever seem to get the chemistry part right.  Time to go make some water change water! 

Thanks for the quick responses!!!  I need to just order the 2 part solution stuff...using stuff out of my kitchen just doesn't seem simple enough for me.   ::)

Offline verper

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 21:25:51 »
Just get the arm and hammer baking soda- not the washing soda.  That is what I've used for 3 years.  That is all the 2 part is.


On the same note, you cannot use Magflake or any Dow Chemical calcium chloride anymore.  Magflake's manufacturer said they could not guarantee its content anymore and Dow has stopped removing Bromide from its calcium chloride.

MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2008, 22:22:47 »
Ah, lovely.  I was just about to order some.

Is that the same stuff that bulkreefsupply.com uses?  If so, I guess I can't order that.

Plan of action:  10% water change in the morning, test after a couple of hours, and then adjust with baking soda instead of kalk.

Offline JoeAyers

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 08:44:28 »
Ah, lovely.  I was just about to order some.

Is that the same stuff that bulkreefsupply.com uses?  If so, I guess I can't order that.

Plan of action:  10% water change in the morning, test after a couple of hours, and then adjust with baking soda instead of kalk.

Bulkreefsupply has said that they have a stock pile of the stuff from back when they were removing the bromide. I use it in my 240 and have had no problems.  If I was you I would do about two 25% water changes a day until you are back in line. I do 20% water changes every week and sometimes much more if I see something out of line.  I don't care what the problem is, water changes will fix it.

Joe

Offline ohioreef

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 13:04:16 »
I have always used good ole Arm & Hammer baking soda to raise my alkalinity. The reef calculator will tell you how much you need to raise it

mrs. justcoral

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 18:07:00 »
In Scott's first tank, a 20 long, many years ago, he was a little confused. his pH was low, so he thought he needed the baking soda to bring it up. well, he dumped in half a box and it kept going down, so I think he dumped in like 3 boxes of the stuff...and well, ya. lol.

Offline hdyoung

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 22:08:38 »
One other thing to remember is that what we call alkalinity changes a ton faster then what we call calcium. If I understand the chemistry correctly, it has to do with the fact that the two values are measured differently (different units).

If something is calcifying in your tank enough to use up just a little bit of the calcium in your water, it will also use up enough alkalinity to make your alkalinity measurements plunge.

It's a fairly common thing to see in the RC chemistry forums. People who have tanks with stable calcium that seem to soak up insane amounts of alkalinity, wondering if something is out of balance with their tanks. Scott has it right though. Read up on all of Randy's two-part articles.

Scott - I think I read something from Randy recently about the bromide issue. I think he isn't as worried about it as he was originally, and that the elevated bromide wont add much more then a few ppm under all but the worst circumstances.  This is a good thing too, since I'm using a recent bottle of driveway heat for my calcium control :)




Offline verper

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 22:17:55 »
That's good to know Dan.  I haven't read anything new about the bromide issue in the last few weeks.

seand

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2008, 22:43:16 »
Which cap frags did you get?

When you come for the 70W, I'll save you a few frags of the big caps...

MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Chemistry 101...or maybe 499....
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2008, 08:50:06 »
Oh!  That's so nice of you to offer, but it's my fault they went to the great coral heaven in the sea.  I got the yellow cap with blue rim and the tan cap with the blue polyps.  The tan one is still hanging on, so I'm crossing my fingers.

My alk is now at 10 dkh, my ph is at 8.2 and my calcium is at 450!  I'm back to normal!  Yay!  I have made the 2 part solution (really the 3-part solution.) 

Sean, just let me know whenever that 70W is available. 

 

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