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Offline Arcade_Guy

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Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« on: February 28, 2009, 15:31:56 »
So our sea hare bit the dust yesterday :(
we knew it was comin, he was obviously getting towards the end of his life span, eating less, sleeping more, so i'm not shocked.

anyways the question is, replace him with another sea hare (i'm thinkin blue dot) or add a lawnmower blenny...

What are everyone's thoughts?

We dont have much GHA but a little has grown since the sea hare has been gone, he kept it all under control so well! If a lawnmower blenny would do just as good then it may be worth it to get one and have it live longer than 6 months to a year. Can't decide tho.

Also don't want to overstock as far as fish go, but the sea hare did put out a ton of waste seeing as all he did was eat and eat and eat.

Open to suggestions and ideas...

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Offline ohioreef

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 15:36:41 »
I had a LMB that wouldn't touch HA.

Offline Dstyles

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 16:50:06 »
My LMB was execellent at eating HA.  I suggest the LMB.  It'll be a great addition to your set up.
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Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 16:58:05 »
yeah ive heard that sometimes they'll eat it and sometimes they wont. Its not like i have a HA problem, but a tiny tuft or two will pop up if nothing is grazing around. Hopefully if i got one he'd snack on it!

The reason I thought a LMB would be good was they also eat the film type algae off the glass, which would be helpful seeing as all my snails stick to the rock work.  ::)

I do love sea hares but i'm got to the point where Nori was necessary to feed them, and eventually he just stopped eating it..
They are the HA removal champs, for sure.

Also, is there anything that is good about eating bubble algae besides emerald crabs? I wouldnt mind adding an emerald or two, but i've read that sometimes they will pinch at coral, which makes me a little hesitant.. We have one right now that hitch hiked in, but he isnt touching it.... Maybe another one or two would possibly eat it?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 17:00:37 by Arcade_Guy »
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Offline jake

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 19:09:00 »
I wonder if that has anything to do with adding the bio load of phyto ever other day and it checking up to it?

Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 19:36:08 »
the algea? well you know i run a kind of nutrient rich tank.. i've backed off of the phytoplankton a bit, but i can tell such a difference with my softies and stuff, the color and growth are amazing.. i dont want to totally stop it unless its obviously causing problems.

The amount of hair algae is like minimal, we're talking a small tuft or two, its in no way an outbreak or anything. But the sea hare would graze enough to keep it off of all the rocks.

As far as bubble algae, there isnt a ton, but enough to make me want to remove it. I have had bad luck trying to manually remove it, popping it and spreading it usually.. its only on one rock.. i've considered taking that rock out and scrubbin it and all but my pistol shrimp lives in there and i dont really want to remove him or mess with him much. So if i can get emeralds to eat it, it'd be best i think. At least then i wouldn't have to spend time manually removing it, they can hunt it down and eat it.

again, no real problems... but just want something to replace the hare in its clean up role.
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Offline Dstyles

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 22:03:09 »
How long have you had the sea hare and what is the typical life span of one?
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Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2009, 22:13:36 »
had him about 6 months, i think the typical life span is about a year or so but cant remember. great for gha control! they are awesome little guys but expensive especially since they dont live long and usually you get an older one. bought mine from joel.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 00:24:22 by Lazylivin »
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Offline Dstyles

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2009, 17:37:09 »
That not very long at all.  If the price is right why not get both?
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Offline Logzor

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 19:35:10 »
I hate to get preachy but please do not buy sea hares. They come into your aquarium well into their lifespan. Even if you get a younger one conditions are such that they die within 6 months to a year. They are extremely cute animals and I hate that they are collected only to die quickly in captivity. Not to mention there are usually better options than a sea hare - such as finding the source for green hair algae. This is usually easier and more effective.

Buying something "at the right price" and knowing it does not live very long is an ethical issue one should reconsider.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 19:38:09 by Logzor »

Offline JSLeedy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 20:03:46 »
I hate to get preachy but please do not buy sea hares. They come into your aquarium well into their lifespan. Even if you get a younger one conditions are such that they die within 6 months to a year. They are extremely cute animals and I hate that they are collected only to die quickly in captivity. Not to mention there are usually better options than a sea hare - such as finding the source for green hair algae. This is usually easier and more effective.

Buying something "at the right price" and knowing it does not live very long is an ethical issue one should reconsider.



I don't even know what that means.  Most fish and inverts you get in the majority of home aquariums aren't going to live as long as they would in then wild.  In that case don't buy anything.  Predation is part of the life cycle and collection is apart of that. 

If it's the right price and you have the means to afford it get them both. 

EDITED - Keep the comments friendly.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 20:19:29 by Reef'd Up »
Dayton,Ohio

Offline jake

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 20:04:25 »
that would depend on its natural life span really. If it is near the same I dont see an issue

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2009, 20:17:35 »
I hate to get preachy but please do not buy sea hares. They come into your aquarium well into their lifespan. Even if you get a younger one conditions are such that they die within 6 months to a year. They are extremely cute animals and I hate that they are collected only to die quickly in captivity. Not to mention there are usually better options than a sea hare - such as finding the source for green hair algae. This is usually easier and more effective.

Buying something "at the right price" and knowing it does not live very long is an ethical issue one should reconsider.



Sorry, but I disagree.  The natural life span of a sea hare is only 1 year in the wild, which is why they have the reproductive habits that they do (I won't get into that on a family friendly site.)  You're right, they usually are collected late in life, but a facility in Florida is breeding them in masses...and selling them young (but only for research purposes).  Again, there are better permanant solutions for combating algae, but I see no harm in purchasing a sea hare.  As long as conditions are appropriate, they can live their full life expectancy in captivity.

From Advanced Aquarist, "The animals that were in the shop in Edmonton were a species of Aplysia. As I said previously, I was encouraged to see these animals for sale because this slug happens to be one of the few that is well-suited to aquarium life."

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2004/invert.htm

Check out that article and read about them on the Sea Slug forum.  They're cool guys, and they're the only Nudibranch I'd recommend to be kept in captivity.

As far as the LMB goes, mine would always bite me...so I hate them all.  :)

Offline Logzor

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 20:23:50 »
Thanks for posting this information. I was not aware of their natural lifespan. That is awesome they can be bred in captivity.

Also, I appreciate that you disagree in a constructive manner and back up your statements.

I just see no point in putting something in your tank that will probably die in 6 months. It seems kind of silly.


Offline JSLeedy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2009, 20:31:25 »
So what your sayin Nikki is it isn't a ethical issue to have sea hares.  They will do the same in the wild and at home.  I also appreciate you posting an opinion and using facts to back it up not just uninformed feelings.

I'm not sure what I said can be called negative.  It wasn't about or toward anyone.  Just my opinion on what you can choose to waste money on if you can afford it.  If that isn't ok I will respectfully apologize.
Dayton,Ohio

MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2009, 21:43:25 »
I can't speak as to what is and is not ethical, that's an individual decision.  Responsible Reefkeeping suggests only purchasing creatures that can be successfully kept in captivity to prevent over-harvesting of animals that have a certain quick death.  But, who is to say that the same animal wouldn't get eaten within 2 months of birth...whereas it lived 6 months in captivity?  There are certain species that I would not suggest purchasing, and would suggest LFS not purchase them as well, but that's just my opinion.  There are other people that believe all importation of sea-dwelling creatures should be stopped.  There's no right answer.

I personally, based on research, see no "ethical" reason to not purchase one, but I'm sure someone somewhere disagrees.  As long as the owner is well informed as to the diet, longevity, and care of the creature, great. 

One thing I do like about the sea hare is that, although they are rather large, they're rather graceful!  I never had one knock anything over or bother anything.  They're not at all clumsy like urchins or crabs.

Keep the discussion friendly and positive.

Offline Amstar

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2009, 22:31:41 »
do they have problems with powerheads?  say modded maxi jets?  and I assume that for a sea hare to have a good life you should have an algae problem?

Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 23:05:21 »
i've read tons of horror stories about sea hares and powerheads, mine was fine tho.

Sure they only live a year, and chances are when you buy one they're at least a few months old.. as far as ethics, i dont see a thing wrong with keeping them.. The way i see it, better in my tank than in a store's tank.. of course if the sea hares had a say i'm sure theyd just rather stay in the ocean but that wont happen lol i can honestly say my sea hare had a good life in my tank, plenty to eat and conditions were kept optimal for him. Just a shame they dont live so long.

In a tank with a GHA problem, they're the best thing ever. They can clean a heavily infested tank in a week!

I've never had that much of a problem with HA, but what little would grow, he'd mow it down. Stay busy and content.

As far as the graceful thing... LOL mine was the clumsiest damn thing i've ever seen. He was always knockin stuff around, falling off of the top of rocks, just a general clutz.. thats partially what made him so entertaining tho. He could always stick on the glass well tho.

I think i will just get another sea hare.. not sure. Maybe a blue spot, they look totally awesome. LMBs are cool and just a bit cheaper, but i know the sea hare will DEFFO eat any HA.
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Offline Logzor

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2009, 23:05:37 »
They are pretty slow moving and careful critters. I would not worry too much about the powerheads.

Although, you do need the algae they like. If you simply like the animal they will devour dried nori and do just fine.

Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2009, 01:37:55 »
well we made a trip to the fish store today and decided on a LMB. The sea hares they had were obviously full grown, hence not worth the cost.

I am happy with the LMB tho, he's very cool. He's eating the film algae off the back glass and even saw him munch on some GHA! Sweet.

He's also the first fish i've seen my cleaner shrimp clean... coolest thing ever!
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Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2009, 14:19:07 »
An update... the LMB is doing very well, eating plenty..

We still really miss having a sea hare tho.. Being fully stocked fish-wise (maybe even a touch overstocked), would a dwarf sea hare be too much? Are they like shrimp/snails/other inverts as far as stocking, or would you count them in with the inches/amount of fish in a tank?

I was recently told its not waste that you have to worry about when it comes to stocking, its oxygenation of the water.. is this true?

My gut feeling is that it would be too much of a load if a sea hare was added... but just thought i'd get some other opinions :)
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Offline UD Flyer

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2009, 15:33:57 »
I think the inches per gallon is more geared towards freshwater fish vs. saltwater fish.  I cant answer your question about if a sea hare will be too much of a bio-load in your tank or not.

But I’ve never heard about “its not waste that you have to worry about when it comes to stocking, its oxygenation of the water”. This seems like something a store will tell you to sell you a fish or someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about trying to sound smart. I may be wrong about that. But, the majority of the waste stays in water and the only way to rid that is through regular water changes and a good skimmer.  More oxygenation of the water doesn’t mean you can add more fish; there are also other variables to take into consideration such as the eventual size of the fish, its eating habits aggression and so on.

What is your load now? If I remember correctly you have a 55gal with a Berlin skimmer?

Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2009, 19:27:51 »
yeah 55 with a berlin. the oxygenation thing someone i know had read online somewhere and mentioned it to me. as my tank has become more stocked i can notice that more frequent water changes are needed and my skimmer is out putting more. so far no territorial issues or fighting, everything has its own spot and seems happy. as sea hares are basically a big snail, would more frequent water changes to remove the waste be sufficient?
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Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 14:34:24 »

What is your load now? If I remember correctly you have a 55gal with a Berlin skimmer?


sorry, i've been at work and busy as hell, didnt have time to list em out.. lol

it's overstocked (well, it will be once everything grows up, but here in a few months we will be upgrading to a 125)

fish:
royal gramma
6 line wrasse
pair of black clowns
dragon goby
pearly jawfish
lawnmower blenny
yellow watchman

the yellow watchman is barely an inch long, just a baby little guy. really everything is still young and small, but once they grow up it'd be overstocked in the 55. but like i said, a larger tank is on the way soon...

anyways, ammonia nitrate and nitrite all test 0, everything is doin great. just have a couple of tufts of GHA, which i know is from a over feeding just a little, and i probably need to replace my phoszorb.

even tho the LMB will munch on the GHA he isnt removing it like i'd hoped. i'm going to hunt down a dwarf sea hare or research if the blue dot sea hares get as big as the regular brown african beasts. i figure it would count more like a snail than a fish, so it should be ok.

a community sea hare wouldnt be a bad idea either IMO, trade him around the club if anyone wants some algae swept up in a day or so.
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Offline Dstyles

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Re: Another Sea Hare, or lawnmower blenny?
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2009, 20:12:25 »
You've had that LMB for more than a week now what do you think of him versus the hare? 
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