Brightwell NeoMarine salt

[UDJustin]

Well I got my first bucket of Brightwells salt this weekend Im gonna start changing my tank over to this salt I will report on how it mixes up and how my tank responds to this stuff since it seems no one else is using this stuff yet.

[UD Flyer]

Where can we get it from and whats the price on a bucket?

[chromiumlux]

Just taggin along

[UDJustin]

i ordered my bucket from premium aquatics at 54 dollars a bucket i think since no one wanted to do Joels group buy on it, but I think he is still working on being able to get it with out having to buy a skid of it. I paid 16 bucks for shipping also but I have a friend at school that is from indy and said they could get it for me when they go back home next time.

[rayviv]

We'll be awaiting an update on that.        Always looking for a better product. I just tried the kent and was disappointed with the way it desolved. It didn't desolve as clear oreasy/fast as RSCP or marineland SeaChem.
Those are the only ones I've used since doing the reef. I used only IO when we did Fish only.
So let us know!

[TechGuy]

We'll be awaiting an update on that.        Always looking for a better product. I just tried the kent and was disappointed with the way it desolved. It didn't desolve as clear oreasy/fast as RSCP or marineland SeaChem.
Those are the only ones I've used since doing the reef. I used only IO when we did Fish only.
So let us know!

You want to sell that bucket of Kent?

[rayviv]

No can do. I mixed it, well about half of it. But I'll see when I get a new bucket. I wont get another bucket of kent. I thought kent was a preferred salt. And I was told it desolved good. But same pump and process was used as always and I had to keep stirring with a large spoon. Where as with RSCP and SeaChem the pump did the stirring and desolve was clear. 

[TechGuy]

No can do. I mixed it, well about half of it. But I'll see when I get a new bucket. I wont get another bucket of kent. I thought kent was a preferred salt. And I was told it desolved good. But same pump and process was used as always and I had to keep stirring with a large spoon. Where as with RSCP and SeaChem the pump did the stirring and desolve was clear. 

I have a 400GPH pump in my container, and it mixes it for me. Weird.

[rayviv]

Do you have to stir it and does it clear up in mixing container.

The pump and placement in container, and temperature and amount of salt are the same as always but the kent was not as easy as RSCP or the SeaChem. But I am waiting to see the effects on the livestock before I can rate it in that category. 

[TechGuy]

I don't stir it at all. I slowly pour it in near the pump. Are you just dumping it in?

[rayviv]

Usually I put like 30g of water and slowly pour the salt in to about 10-11 cups (2 cp container) that we use for the salt.

[chromiumlux]

I have a Rio Hyper flow in a 30 gallon Brute. I mix on average 20g. I've never had a problem with Kent salt mixing up consistantly. Never had to spoon mix.Temp is always 80 degrees when I mix. Hey, If Techguy doesn't buy that salt, I will.

[UDJustin]

Kent salt is for the most part the same as Instant Ocean for those of you who didnt know.

[harleyrider]

sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[TechGuy]

Kent salt is for the most part the same as Instant Ocean for those of you who didnt know.

Sigh.

Read the comparisons posted on this forum. They are not the same Salts.

[TechGuy]

sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And for the love of god, no more salt arguments. This thread is about Brightwell Salt.

[slandis3]

Sigh.

Read the comparisons posted on this forum. They are not the same Salts.

You need to reread what he said, They are FOR THE MOST PART the same he didnt say they were the same, and he is right. The base compounds are the same Kent just adds different additives.

[harleyrider]

And for the love of god, no more salt arguments. This thread is about Brightwell Salt.

go outside of this forum to the mfgS web site and you might see the facts, the are the exact same base salt, without the add's that they put in for kent, cal etc.

[rayviv]

Kent salt is for the most part the same as Instant Ocean for those of you who didnt know.

I had no idea. THANKS for broadening my knowledge base. 
Have plenty of room for more

[TechGuy]

I had no idea. THANKS for broadening my knowledge base. 
Have plenty of room for more

Oh hes right.

But the issue is dosing. Do you want to dose? Are you confident enough in yourself to accurately measure, and dose everything? Magnesium? Alk? Calcium? Thats the major difference. We can argue until we are all blue in the face. IO is fine for most, its fine for those who want a great tank and don't mind dosing. But I want you to look at one VERY important fact. Who doses here, and who has had a tank CRASH. Not a little "oops", but a full on tank crash. Do a search. Its those who dose, and dose incorrectly, maintaining that perfect PH/Calcium/Alk/Mag that have crashes. They see incredible growth, until it blows up on them.

I prefer to do water changes with a quality salt, and not tinker with everything daily. As they said before, if its not broke don't fix it. But my SPS seem to like that fact that I do a simple weekly water change, and I don't have swings in my levels, because I don't dose. I add calcium on Wednesdays, and water changes on Saturdays. If I skip a water change, I add Iodide, and strontium. Never have I had an issue. I lose one SPS coral, due to bad flow and placement. But not water quality.

But to each his own.

[Joel]

Experienced persons don't have problems with dosing trace elements.

It is a very common practice to add supplements to reef type aquariums to maintain proper water parameters regardless of what brand of salt is being used. Because you don't understand how it is done does not mean it should not be done.

Explain to me (and every one else) how someone with so little experience in this hobby is such an authority on how it should be done.

Joel

[lazylivin]

Techguy I think you will find that 90% of the time the problems with those of us that have had issues with our tanks is from levels getting to low. Not to high. I could not go two days with out dosing or it would deplete Alkalinity levels to an unsafe amount and three days without  calcium. I think you will find that for the most part if not all cases those that dose have been very successful which is why they have to dose 2 part or add a calcium reactor. If you are successful and your corals grow to a mature size you will then understand and have a different viewpoint.

[rayviv]

Well I got my first bucket of Brightwells salt this weekend Im gonna start changing my tank over to this salt I will report on how it mixes up and how my tank responds to this stuff since it seems no one else is using this stuff yet.

Still looking forward to the performance report

[UDJustin]

If you wanted a quality salt, Kent is on the same level as instant  ocean if you want to move up to a high end salt that has better levels you would have to get something like brightwell, tropic marin, etc. not kent. Not saying kent is a bad brand by any means its just not what I think would be considered a premium salt blend

[rayviv]

If you wanted a quality salt, Kent is on the same level as instant  ocean if you want to move up to a high end salt that has better levels you would have to get something like brightwell, tropic marin, etc. not kent. Not saying kent is a bad brand by any means its just not what I think would be considered a premium salt blend

Not wanting to Hyjack; I will start a new thread. called 'premium salts'

[pontiac2002gtp]

if I didn't dose my corals would never make it I don't care what kind of salt I use by the way I use IO reef crystals and have for years with no ill effects it mixes to a high alk and decent calcium only thing lacking is a lil mag.  Even with doing a 10% water change weekly it hardly effects what I have to dose which is about 600ml daily of alk and 900ml calcium I dump a gallon of mag in at every water change and my levels stay good.  I would like to try out the brightwell salt if we can get a good price on it.

[rayviv]

600ml of ALK daily? Now what exactly is alk?

[UDJustin]

alkalinity

[rayviv]

Thats what I thought. (Iama senior u no) 
Isnt that a lot for daily dose?

[Joel]

Alk = alkalinity.

Alk is the measure of the carbonates present in your water. The primary purpose of the carbonates is to neutralize acids as they develop in your water. These acids are mostly a bi product of the natural metabolic processes taking place in the aquarium and are a constant. The trend is for your carbonates to be depleted as they neutralize acids in your water, accordingly your alk will drop and if not kept in check, your PH will drop as well. Through regular testing a person can determine approximately how much their alk drops daily and how much of a alk increaser needs to be added to counter the depletion. Daily or at least several time per week adjustments are preferable to infrequent supplementation.

This is very much a "nut shell" explaination but it give the basic idea.

On a side note, ALk and ph are not one and the same as often believed. Just because a person has a desirable ph does not mean they have a desirable Alk, they are independant of one another..

[Joel]

Whoops, sorry, didn't see Justin had answered the ALK question.

Ray; Supplement addition is very much dependent on how large the demand is. For example, a tank with a large number of organisms will typically need more supplementation to overcome their tax on the system versus a lightly stocked system.

Another example, if you had two 100 gallon aquariums, one with a lot of stoney corals and coraline algae, the other with mostly softies and polyps, although they are both in theory approximately 100 gallons, the supplementation on the stoney & coraline tank is likely to be many times higher than the softy & polyp tank due to the greater consumption rate of carbonates & calcium of the stoney corals & Coraline algae. Another point to make here is that gallons of water is not what determines the need or amount of supplementation, it's how many organisms are consuming the supplement & how fast.

[lazylivin]

On a side note, ALk and ph are not one and the same as often believed. Just because a person has a desirable ph does not mean they have a desirable Alk, they are independant of one another..

and in my case a high alk level did not mean a desirable PH although probrably less common.
Justin sorry about destroying your thread. Although it has been an exiciting debate.

[rayviv]

Thank you Joel, and LazyLiving; I was able to get some comprehension from that. Like the first crack of Light, so to say. Appreciate the info.

[TechGuy]

Explain to me (and every one else) how someone with so little experience in this hobby is such an authority on how it should be done.

Joel

Edited by Reef'd_Up - NO SARCASM!!!  Keep the forum friendly.

Seriously. What does it take to do some research? Lets say, not on a forum? But read what REAL experts have to say about something?

I'm sorry you don't like my simple aproach. Clearly I must be doing something right, everything in my tank is thriving. I'll just sit back, be quiet, and let you sell dosing systems and supplies. Hows that?  

And I am not being sarcastic either. Dosing isn't for everyone.

Ray, what would happen if you started dosing all this?

[rayviv]

"Ray, what would happen if you started dosing all this?"

Well, at this point in my reefkeeping exprerience I do not know what would happen; I also do not know what will happen if I DON'T.

With me its got to do with the bicycle riding before the Motorcycle ride.

[slandis3]

And I am not being sarcastic either. Dosing isn't for everyone.

Ray, what would happen if you started dosing all this crap?

Your right dosing isn't for everyone. But for some it’s a necessity. So before you go off and say that people that dose will have a crash maybe you should sit back and be quite. There are a lot of us that have allot more experience than you.  

Edited by Reef'd_Up - No personal attacks

So far anyone that’s has disagreed with you, you go out of your way to try and make your answer the only correct answer. You wont reason with anyone unless the agree with you.

[UDJustin]

Your system obvously isnt a high demand system therefor dosing is not necessary for you. but some people have a high coral load and dosing is required no matter the brand of salt.

[Joel]

Techguy: I don't have any problem with how you want to operate & maintain your aquarium. It's yours to do what ever you wish with.

The problem is that your preaching on here to everyone on the right way to operate an aquarium and there are many problems with your advise. Your expressing your opinions as facts based on very little experience and largely, they are wrong. The experienced hobbyist see the problems with your advise and try to address the problems and offer better information for not only you but for others to learn from. But instead of learning from the advanced hobbyist, you challenge and disagree with them and continue to preach to others that your opinion is "the way". With the overwhelming numbers of experienced hobbyist here telling you your wrong and even explaining why, it's dumb founding that you keep going on your crusade to "teach people the way".  Again, your basing your opinions on very little time & experience with very little equipment & supplies, I'm almost embarrassed for you.

My knowledge in this hobby is not based on just 1 aquarium that I have owned for a short period of time. I've seen and experienced an awful lot over the years and have learned much. My understanding of how aquariums work are far advanced by comparison to some, (you for example) and dwarfed by others. It's humbling to me when talking to someone who's knowledge is greater than mine but it's also an opportunity to learn more and I like to take advantage of it. I know when I'm truly out of my league and need to shut up and listen. There is no shame in needing to learn about a subject your new to however, there is much shame in acting like your an authority about a subject you know little about only to have it repeatedly pointed out how wrong you are and why (as has been your case repeatedly)

If you had done some reading from the experts, you would have a better understanding of equipment and water maintenance. Pick up a copy of Anthony Calfo's or Julian Sprung's books that cover system, equipment & water management. These are two of the best and most experienced persons in the industry. They have much to offer beginners and advanced hobbyist alike.

Again, I really don't care what you believe or practice on your aquariums. But you have got to stop offering such bad & inaccurate advise, stop bashing things because you don't understand them, insinuating people are stupid, etc..

If you help and want to learn, were here for you, otherwise, please fine somewhere else to be a nuisance.

[Joel]

And....

I'm sorry too Justin.

Very interested in hearing how this salt works out for you.

Joel

[Reefd Up]

Keep the forum friendly EVERYONE!  Don't be sarcastic...I don't want to hear it, and no one else does. 

Techguy - I'm sorry, but the requirement for dosing can be proved by math.  If the organisms in a tank are taking out more than water changes can supply, dosing must be provided to keep up with their growth.  For some people, regular water changes are just NOT enough to keep up with the demand.  For instance, on my 40g tank, I had over 75 colonies, mostly SPS.  Before I moved tanks, I was dosing 300 ml per day of Ca, Alk, and Mag...and doing a 10% water change every other day.  Lemme tell ya...a 10% water change every other day is just NOT feasible for most people.  High demand systems are just that...high demand.  There was only one time where I had trouble (not a crash, but trouble) by dosing...and that was when Will accidentally dosed a gallon of Magnesium b/c he thought it was RO topoff water.  There are user-friendly websites that calculate the amount of chemicals you'll need to add...not that difficult.  I've haven't really heard too many horror stories with dosing other than dosing pumps failing...or CA reactors failing.  I do it manually...not too much error there!

You ask, "what does it take to do some research"?  Where are your sources?  Have you stopped to read any of my "Reef Brief" articles on this site?  They're all researched and sourced...info by top experts in the field...or by scientists using the scientific method. 

On this site you'll find MANY engineers, some scientists, a couple of chemists, many construction/carpenters, and several biologists.  In addition to that, there are a few people on here that have been in this hobby about as long as I've been alive.  That's not really a hobby anymore...they could be considered experts. 

No, dosing is definitely not for everyone.  I went for quite a while without dosing...water changes were more than fine.  My theory has always been K.I.S.S. - Keep it simple, stupid!  But, there is a threshhold where water changes become excessive...and dosing becomes easier and less expensive.

And don't point at LFS encouraging dosing to make a profit.  While they do sell the chemicals...many of us buy in bulk from our local hardware/grocery stores...and some of the LFS have encouraged it or do it themselves. 

[UDJustin]

Ok back on task you silly kids  I started mixing my first batch of the salt. All granuales are very uniform in size and bucket was sealed very well. I mixed half the amount at a time and with in minutes the water was clear and bucket was clean so it seems as of right now the salt mixes well and very clean. I'm in the process of testing the params of the water to see if the bucket is correct with the values it states. I should be able to post them up later today if i get around to it.

[UDJustin]

Ok this is what I got so far I tested with all salifert test kits and a pinpoint salinity monitor.
Salinity- 33.7 ppt or 1.0250
Calcium 450 they clain 413 I think
DKH 10.0 they say 7.5
PH 8.3 it was 8.3
Magnesium 1380 I think they say 1288
I didnt test for strontium cause I didnt want to spend 25 mins for one test at the moment so Im not gonna compare that for you. This was me testing so my tests could be a little off cause Im sloppy and dont like to wait so their could be some error in my results I would have to have some other people test it or send it out to be tested to actually make the claim that the results were a little off. On the other hand this is where I try to keep my tank anyways so the levels are dead on for me. Now the real test how the animals react to the salt, this test will take many weeks if not months.

[Joel]

I didnt test for strontium cause I didnt want to spend 25 mins for one test at the moment so Im not gonna compare that for you.

Lazy!!!!!!!

[slandis3]

I would have to have some other people test it or send it out to be tested to actually make the claim that the results were a little off.

ok go ahead and give me the rest of your salt i'll be glad to test it for you 

[UDJustin]

Ok maybe i am lazy but how many people on here actually have a strontium test kit

[Wall_Tank]

I do...... but then it's way past its expiration date.

[Reefd Up]

Noooooope

[Joel]

Ok maybe i am lazy but how many people on here actually have a strontium test kit

I had one but you took it.......

[UDJustin]

lol whats yours is mine Joel isnt that how our relationship works

[Joel]

Lets takk to Liz & Cheryl about that....

[rayviv]

  Easy guys this is a family channel;LOL  

Wanted to thank you 4 the beneficial info.

Joel, I've been on Holmes-Farly site trying to reach 'point of comprehension'.
Was wondering where to find the two books you referenced.

Ray

[UDJustin]

The reef aquarium volume III is a good one I just finished that its over 600 pages long it is written by sprung and delbeck(spelling). Coral propagation is another good book finished that a couple months back Calfo wrote that. Those are two very good books I have to say Calfo's book was very inspiring to me and made me think of whole new ideas on how to set up a tank.

[rayviv]

The reef aquarium volume III is a good one I just finished that its over 600 pages long it is written by sprung and delbeck(spelling). Coral propagation is another good book finished that a couple months back Calfo wrote that. Those are two very good books I have to say Calfo's book was very inspiring to me and made me think of whole new ideas on how to set up a tank.

And where did you find these books? Are they at the Library do you know?

[UDJustin]

I bought them off Joel if none of the local sponsers carry them look at premium aquatics they should have them

[rayviv]

I bought them off Joel if none of the local sponsers carry them look at premium aquatics they should have them

Thanks man,!

[UDJustin]

For water parameters I thought water chemistry by brightwell was also very good