Author Topic: salt (Read 5789 times)

rayviv · « **on:** April 29, 2009, 11:21:25 »

Does anyone know if red sea coral pro ever responded to that complaint over metal in it?

Also, whats the better of Reef Crystals or SeaChem?

reefer3737 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2009, 12:45:57 »

I dont think it was the salt!ive never had a prob. with it just what some peeps were saying???i still think its awsome!!!!!

rayviv · « **Reply #2 on:** April 29, 2009, 13:23:15 »

I think Nickie along w/others found metal pieces in it. She had contacted manufacture but no response.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #3 on:** April 29, 2009, 18:35:16 »

To answer the question regarding the salt, no, I never heard back. I found several other people on ReefCentral and on this website as well with the exact same problem (some found visible metal, others did not...regardless as to whether it was the metal that was the problem doesn't matter...the salt was bad.) When we switched salts, everything went back to being fine.

I don't think the salt mix was necessarily bad as itself...but I think at a minimum there was something that bothered my tank...and with as high demand tank I'm running, it's quite possible that *something* killed them.

rayviv · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2009, 22:43:39 »

tanks 4 the chime-in. that enough to keep me from it. I'm going to try this SeaChem for awhile.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:13:48 »

So far I'm loving the SeaChem, but the buckets that Scott and I initially received were pretty low in magnesium...just keep that in mind. I'd test if I were you.

rayviv · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:24:02 »

Tanks again. I still have about 1/2 bucket of red sea coral pro and cant afford to pitch it. But I'm watching it real close with my good eye.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2009, 15:28:28 »

My conclusion on the RSCP is this,

RSCP uses salt straight from the ocean, and the manufacturers claim that their salt has all of the trace elements that the ocean has, including gold. My thought is...well, we don't know what all of the trace elements do for sea-life. I'm sure there are elements in RSCP that are used in the ocean, but aren't utilized in our aquariums (due to the fact that we don't keep one of every ocean creature in our aquariums.) There are also probably some elements that are toxic, but the water volume of the ocean dilutes the toxicity.

Everyone I've talked to that has had the same problem as me has had a very high coral-load...and was performing large frequent water changes. My theory is that the large frequent water changes of RSCP were dumping some element into the tank that was, in small doses benign, but in large doses, toxic. Heavier elements may not have been removed in the process of water changing (or they were bonding/absorbing into other surfaces) causing a build-up.

Just my theory...can't be proved or negated (easily). The only other thing I can say is that I have no evidence suggesting that RSCP is detrimental to low coral-load tanks. Even before this incident happened to me, I questioned the concept of a salt that came directly from the ocean (yes, I know it's cleaned and stuff...but I meant the contents of the salt.)

rayviv · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2009, 15:55:08 »

The fact that they would not respond is enough for me to question where my loyalty as a customer should lie. Another thing is that if we use, lets say, the same gasoline in our car all the time then there is a problem w/gas you'll have same problem. Where if you switch and use different gas from different stations your less likely to have injector or gumming up problems. Seems the same should apply in supplies, such as salt.
JM.o2

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2009, 20:13:58 »

I think every manufacturer has issues from time to time. Best to check parameters when you mix up your first batch.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2009, 22:14:34 »

I usually check parameters...and in each case, the RSCP checked perfectly (which is why I used it & recommended it.) Although the SeaChem isn't checking right on the bucket I got...my tank is doing better with it.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2009, 22:51:26 »

So since I just bought two buckets of Red Sea.... and your scaring me. What symptoms did you have in your tank?

I have been using oceanic salt for about 3 years, which has been very good and clean salt. I just got tired of the Alk and Ca being so far out of whack. And the Mg was low too. Just to much correction on every batch of water.

verper · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:39:18 »

Nothing in particular, just a slow, steady decline in the health and look of the tank. I had some caps and acros die a slow death and was testing for everything, but every parameter was within its limits. Wierd part is other coral were looking just fine, with no signs of stress. Within a day of switching to a different salt, everything in the tank perked back up. Another wierd thing is that it doesn't seem to affect everyone's tank that uses it. I just know that it affected mine.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:02:56 »

Exactly what Scott said. Except...I performed massive water changes trying to fix the tank...with the RSCP...which made my tank pretty much crash. I lost a lot of stuff.

UDJustin · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2009, 10:29:09 »

I used RSCP salt for the past six months to nine months or so never had any problems with it at all honestly, it always gave me great levels, I did recently swith salts just because it became a hassle to get the RSCP salt, other than that I really like it.

slandis3 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2009, 10:34:40 »

Quote from: udjustin on May 05, 2009, 10:29:09

I used RSCP salt for the past six months to nine months or so never had any problems with it at all honestly, it always gave me great levels, I did recently swith salts just because it became a hassle to get the RSCP salt, other than that I really like it.

Same here. Now how many people that were having problems with salt this are using 2part to dose there tank with? The reason i ask is because it seams like the people that were having problems with this salt were also dosing 2part. I wounder if there was some kind of chemical reaction going on between the rscp and 2 part?

UDJustin · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:49:59 »

yeah i used kalk no two part here, but i think scott has a calcium reactor if im not mistaken.

slandis3 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:53:08 »

i think he was using 2 part for a while

rayviv · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2009, 13:39:47 »

newbe question. When you say,"checking right on the bucket", exactly what do you mean. Is that printed info or testing water/salt mix sample? And what is 2 part. Thanks

Reefd Up · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2009, 16:32:03 »

I'm not sure what is meant by "checking right on the bucket", but I test the levels of most of the saltwater I make, each bucket individually, to make sure that the levels are within "normal parameters."

Two-part is the nickname for a dosing regimen consisting of magnesium chloride/magnesium sulfate, sodium (bi)carbonate, and calcium chloride (it's technically a 3-part).

The other people I found on Reef Central used a combination of limewater, 2-part, and/or calcium reactors. I used two part, and actually switched suppliers of the chemicals midway through having problems because I suspected the 2-part LONG before I suspected the salt. Changing the 2-part had no effect (in fact, I'm still using the same 2-part solution I made during that time with no ill effect). Scott at some point changed to a calcium reactor, though I don't know when.

If we try to suspect the 2-part solution...how is that more suspect than RSCP salt? At least RSCP salt has only a couple of suppliers locally...and then keeps track of batch numbers. I use baking soda (food grade purity...obtained through various grocery stores...small boxes to keep batch problems to a minimum). I can bet 99% that anyone else using baking soda to dose probably didn't get the same batch number as me. I use epsom salts (food grade purity...obtained through various grocery stores, small bags as well). Once again, I can bet pretty highly (although not as highly as baking soda since it isn't a product used as much) that no one else using that to dose had the same batch. My magnesium chloride came from both Buckeye Field Supply and Bulk Reef Supply. I can't speak for the BFS source, but I know that the BRS source came from a very large high purity source. I'm sure lots of people are using the same batch I am throughout the U.S. The calcium chloride came from BRS in two different batches...both of a high purity source. Once again, I'm sure lots of people are using the same batches there.

Now, statistically speaking, how likely is it that me and a few other people all had the exact same combination/batch at the same time of 2-part solution versus a bad batch of salt? There are so many variables in the 2-part solution that I find it extremely hard to believe we had the same batches of stuff...whereas we ALL were using RSCP.

As far as RSCP causing some sort of chemical reaction with two-part solution? Chemically, the only bad reaction that I know of that could possibly occur is the build-up of sulfates, but that's been proven to be negligible in an aquarium setting except over long periods of neglect. Regardless, I even quit dosing magnesium sulfate for a while to make sure that wasn't the problem. In fact, I quit dosing each thing at a different time to see which one could've been bad. The tank never recovered a bit while I wasn't dosing one versus the other.

The ONLY thing in common between all of us that I can find, was that IMMEDIATELY, after we changed salt brands, our tanks looked better.

I find it interesting how several people are determined to *prove* several people botched up somewhere else. We have no solid evidence one way or the other. I am not out to destroy Red Sea...and neither are the other people that lost their tanks or corals from this problem. My biggest question is why are some people so protective of a salt, especially when I never even received a courtesy reply saying, "We're sorry about your loss, but we have no reported problems"?

If your tank is performing fine on RSCP, great! If you're happy with it, stay with it! I used RSCP for about 1.5 years with great results. However, as soon as I started a new bucket, my tank immediately went downhill...and recovered upon changing to a different salt. Who knows, maybe I'll try it again some day in the future. The whole point of my previous thread about this was for BUYER AWARENESS.

Please keep in mind our intentions when we post about our experiences, and remember that we lost animals near and dear to ourselves.

UDJustin · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2009, 16:55:02 »

I dont think anyone is trying to prove you wrong nikki I was suggesting I had never had a problem with it, when you see someone on the forum say oh no I'm scared to use that salt now because you are having problems, I was merley pointing out that I have used it and have not had any problems with it, I even pointed out that I didn't think scott used two part while using the salt.

slandis3 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2009, 16:56:08 »

First off my post was not to *prove* anything nor am I protective of anything. I am simply woundering if there was a connection. Thats all. No need to get bent out of shape no one is calling anyone out here. Just a simple question thats it.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2009, 17:00:12 »

I've received a few interesting PM's and emails regarding us being wrong, so I wanted to try to clear that up to the general public. No bent out of shape here, just giving a full answer to some of the correspondence I've received. I don't care if I'm wrong...as long as there's a full justification why. Nothing is worse than being told you're wrong, with no justification. Justin and Mike, nothing was directed at you, don't worry.

You both have given me many things to think about, and I appreciate that.

verper · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2009, 20:47:04 »

Something that has come to mind on my end while using RSCP is that I was keeping my Alk at the low end of normal (7-8 Dkh) because at one time I was vodka dosing. At first I suspected the vodka dosing as the cause of my problems. I had great results vodka dosing prior to starting the use of RSCP. Once I switched, it was a slow, steady decline and I stopped the vodka dosing. Stopping did nothing to improve the tank. I know aquavista99 has had great results with the RSCP, but he uses a calcium reactor and kalkwasser so you know he has high Alk. Nikki has been fighting low Alk for a while because of her smaller tank.

So the question is:
"What Alk do the rest of you that are using RSCP run?"

If you are all at 9 Dkh or higher, maybe its the lower alk. Just a thought.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #24 on:** May 05, 2009, 21:15:23 »

Salt usually brings out the passion in people

I use a Calc Reactor, but the effluent flow is set very low right now. I run Kalk at night via a dosing pump. I've been fighting low Alk for some time. But probably due to running Oceanic salt, it's way out of balance with Kalk being very low side. I adjust alk imbalance with Baking Soda. My next batch of salt water is going to be RSCP, so I'll cross my fingers.

As I read all of these responses, I have a few questions too.

1) When doing water changes, what % of the tank volume do you change?
2) What form of nutrient export is being used?
3) How long ago did these problems occur with RSCP?

lazylivin · « **Reply #25 on:** May 05, 2009, 21:36:14 »

Quote from: Wall_Tank on May 05, 2009, 21:15:23

3) How long ago did these problems occur with RSCP?

Here is the original thread http://www.ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=5034.0

slandis3 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 05, 2009, 21:49:58 »

my alk was always between 8 and 10. it would drop off when it was time to do a water change or if i forgot to add kalk to my reactor. Nikki. now that you are using different are you still haveing trouble keeping your alk right? How about you scott?

verper · « **Reply #27 on:** May 05, 2009, 21:55:17 »

I've never had problems keeping my alk fairly stable. My alk being on the low side was on purpose with the vodka dosing. I will say the alk is rock solid at 9-9.3 now that the GEO calcium reactor is up and running.

slandis3 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2009, 21:58:22 »

got ya.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2009, 22:08:07 »

I was struggling to keep alk up at the time...it stayed around 8-10 (10 on a good day, 8 was average.) Even after switching salts, I struggled to keep my alk up. But, with the new tank, my alk is solid at 10 (even after a week of no dosing!!!...granted...I did throw away a lot of coral.)

At the initial time of using RSCP, I was changing 10% per week (as I had for the previous 2 years). As the tank kept getting worse, I started changing the water more...and more...and more. I kept changing until I ran out of that bucket and had to use some IO...and magically things improved within an hour or two.

As far as nutrient export, I did a 10% water change weekly (which included blowing out the rocks and cleaning the sand), skimmed wet with the Tunze Nano 9002 skimmer, grew macro-algae, had a RDSB, and used carbon 1 week per month and ran phosphate remover continuously. Nitrates and phosphates have been undetectable for the past 2+ years. Nothing had changed prior to my tank going downhill except changing to a new bucket of RSCP.

rayviv · « **Reply #30 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:03:46 »

Reply # 10 you stated you 'check it on the bucket'; I didn't want to miss something that might be important. Such as the 2-part; which was very thorough and I do appreciate it even if I dont understand it. I've got a lot to learn. Thanks, Ray

Reefd Up · « **Reply #31 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:11:51 »

Quote from: Reef'd Up on May 04, 2009, 22:14:34

I usually check parameters...and in each case, the RSCP checked perfectly (which is why I used it & recommended it.) Although the SeaChem isn't checking right on the bucket I got...my tank is doing better with it.

I meant that the bucket of SeaChem I got wasn't testing to the parameters I thought it should. (By "checking right on the bucket" I meant the levels weren't checking with what I thought they should for that particular bucket. I really have some interesting grammar somedays!)

rayviv · « **Reply #32 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:14:31 »

Does vodka go in the tank or in gut? What does that do? Is that widely used and the baking soda too?

rayviv · « **Reply #33 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:17:03 »

thank you; Boy I feel stupid. But I've not seen any of this in a book and I have to ask.

METZCOOL · « **Reply #34 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:17:49 »

Corals for sale from my last bucket of RSCP

http://toledo.craigslist.org/for/1144056206.html

Reefd Up · « **Reply #35 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:21:57 »

Vodka dosing is a whole 'nother topic. (And yes, it can go into both your gut and the tank! Yum yum). It acts as a food source for bacteria, not as a mineral for corals/invertebrates/etc. I've never messed with vodka as it is a tricky beast (nor did I have any use for it.) It's moderately used, but can be very risky. It is not essential for a successful tank. Someone more experienced with it should chime in....

Baking soda is simply sodium bicarbonate. This is used for the alkalinity portion of the "2-part" solution. Baked baking soda is sodium carbonate, which is also used for the alkalinity portion of the "2-part" depending on which recipe you use and need. I personally use baking soda since the food grade stuff is very high purity (don't use the washing grade purity stuff...no no!) and it's so inexpensive!

Reefd Up · « **Reply #36 on:** May 05, 2009, 23:22:45 »

Quote from: METZCOOL on May 05, 2009, 23:17:49

Corals for sale from my last bucket of RSCP
http://toledo.craigslist.org/for/1144056206.html

Oooooh, too funny...but oh so true.

Thankfully my stuff wasn't that large when it died.

verper · « **Reply #37 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:53:13 »

Quote from: METZCOOL on May 05, 2009, 23:17:49

Corals for sale from my last bucket of RSCP
http://toledo.craigslist.org/for/1144056206.html

LOL. At least you had so awesome growth with it!

jjw2121 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 06, 2009, 07:23:36 »

Would you take 200 for the corals, LOL

jungliztkruger · « **Reply #39 on:** May 06, 2009, 11:10:20 »

Quote from: rayviv on May 05, 2009, 23:14:31

Does vodka go in the tank or in gut? What does that do? Is that widely used and the baking soda too?

one for you (tank) two for me

of course if you dose .5 mL vodka it should be more like one fpr you ten for me

JoeAyers · « **Reply #40 on:** May 06, 2009, 11:27:36 »

I've used RSCP for about 14 months without issue and I use 2-part exclusively. Will eventually add the reactor that is sitting in the stand and use both 2-part and the reactor. I did do a couple of water changes with other salts after talking with Scott and did not notice anything in particular good or bad.

Please take this at face value. I do not test anything anymore so I have no idea what my PH, ALK, CA, Strotium, barium, pringles or snablegast tests out in my tank. I pretty much get it aligned in the begining and set and forget. I do lots of water changes and have a massive skimmer. I'm more of a hands off guy once everything seems stable. The only thing I check regularly are temp and salinity. I doubt I will continue to use RSCP after I run out this time, not because I don't like it, but more because of the PIA it is to get and the cost has been rising faster than others. I will probably go back to using whatever salt is on sale when I need it.

Joe

chromiumlux · « **Reply #41 on:** May 06, 2009, 21:32:11 »

Ive been using RSCP since day one and it seems that I'm starting to have more problems keeping a stable Ph. I use a 2 part also and it seems right after I dose the ph rises then drops again within the hour.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #42 on:** May 06, 2009, 21:58:40 »

Depending on where your probe is, and where you dose. That seems normal for a two part.... namely the alk part.

micki · « **Reply #43 on:** May 06, 2009, 23:24:14 »

Quote from: METZCOOL on May 05, 2009, 23:17:49

Corals for sale from my last bucket of RSCP
http://toledo.craigslist.org/for/1144056206.html

Is this for real???

Reefd Up · « **Reply #44 on:** May 07, 2009, 06:15:17 »

D'oh! No...it was a joke.

micki · « **Reply #45 on:** May 07, 2009, 07:00:16 »

I don't know anything about Craigs List. Plus, I'm TOO trusting! UGH!

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #46 on:** May 07, 2009, 19:00:49 »

Craig's list is a real classifieds, but the post was a joke

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Author Topic: salt (Read 5789 times)

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