Ohio Reef

Reef Discussion => Fish Breeding & Coral Propagation => Topic started by: jd on February 12, 2010, 22:32:17

Title: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 12, 2010, 22:32:17: I've been getting this ready for my frag tank ( it should have water tomorrow! Thanks Wall_Tank! ;D) and I've been playing around with some ideas of propagating zoas and other matting coral (GSP, pipe organ, maybe even xenia.) So I put together a few things too see if I can frag them easier, safer and to a polyp count.

So here the supplies

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0308.jpg&hash=b167064964b9581d26a3639e150e35edc4123a7d)

Building the 2x2 frag plugs.
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0310.jpg&hash=558eff2cf233794d09617d97788fcfae84fa98ac)

Finished.
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0312.jpg&hash=408965c898875cebc1e1fb05ac7c510a375ccb01)

Next I coated the the plugs in a thin layer of GE Silicone #1
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0316.jpg&hash=cc291e018f01bf80f2634234f65bbc43068e94bc)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0313.jpg&hash=46b0de627ab4b0f34f39d15d01a420c770bbe7d7)

Then dipped them in sand
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0315.jpg&hash=ce1dcd7b3832362e7873ac3f0fbe4fb04acee822)

Finished
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0323.jpg&hash=927ff25f32f2eb36cf82222e7421f6ec77c1aa1d)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0324.jpg&hash=00001494d0eb1a6dd630d8ad3871e609527dceec)

Another one glued to eggcrate with gaps between the tiles to allow me to run a razor between the mat of zoas.

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0317.jpg&hash=9a34ad4ed655caa302c5d733a89b5f27219a6d97)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0309.jpg&hash=f1f8b5890431d130ae8d079d15608ca4c0675ded)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0318.jpg&hash=4dbba96be9fa6c5b7caa0d86080705ab543897d3)

My idea behind this method is as follows. The glued sand will allows the frags to grow out without crowding each other. The super glue is weak enough that I can cut the mat and snap the tiles giving me 4 frags without having to mount them by themselves. The smoothness of the tile should allow anyone that gets a frag to take a straight razor, slide it under the sand and cut the zoa right off the plug. You're new zoa flap should mount easily to your rockwork.

My next idea is similar to the previous but allows frags to be cut the size from the colony without having to remount them.

Take some needle point mesh
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0320.jpg&hash=f7f37069ffb55f9c9001833eb0b71f330faa9895)

Cut squares, smear in silicone and dip
(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0319-1.jpg&hash=8feeeb6b2928e526fd625900ff96d97da6f2daf4)

There they are, anyone want to have a few and test them out?
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: ohioreef on February 12, 2010, 22:40:28: That is an awesome idea!!
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: cyberwollf on February 12, 2010, 22:44:25: I like the needlepoint mess more.. It would allow you do pick exactly how many polyps you want to frag, then you can just glue that to a larger plug if you wish. But, those break away tiles are pretty sweet.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: UD Flyer on February 12, 2010, 22:47:58: Fragging made easy! This is a great idea jd. Also, wouldn't the needlepoint mesh with sand work as a good alternative to bare bottom tanks?
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 12, 2010, 22:51:29: Quote from: ohioreef on February 12, 2010, 22:40:28
That is an awesome idea!!

Thanks!

Quote from: cyberwollf on February 12, 2010, 22:44:25
I like the needlepoint mess more.. It would allow you do pick exactly how many polyps you want to frag, then you can just glue that to a larger plug if you wish. But, those break away tiles are pretty sweet.

I'm leaning toward it also. My only concern it that it might be too light and blow around in the tank. I might glue a tile to the backs of them.

Quote from: UD Flyer on February 12, 2010, 22:47:58
Fragging made easy! This is a great idea jd. Also, wouldn't the needlepoint mesh with sand work as a good alternative to bare bottom tanks?

Thanks. I think a lot of people who run BB use epoxy and lay sand on time of it. Its a little unwieldy to apply the silicon to a mesh, alot of it pushes thur.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 12, 2010, 23:46:35: How ironic, I was just got done making plugs myself not 15 minutes ago.

Josh just playing off your ideas. If we got some of the larger say 6" ceramic tiles and cut almost all the way through in a graph paper pattern with a tile cutter. That would be great for growing zoa's. You could spread the silicone on the non cut side and apply the sand. Then just snap them where you want. Same concept just gives a smaller tile. Wish I had a tile cutter.

Your welcome to come by and make some rock plugs at my place. I have everything you need and plenty of it.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 12, 2010, 23:50:53: Brian, I like that idea. I wonder if we can cut the tiles that many times without cracking it. Lowes has some smaller mosaic tiles also, I'll pickup a sheet and make some of those up to. I think they were around 1/4". Looking at these tiles now, it does look like it will take forever for them to grow out on them :)

Are your rock plugs cut pieces of liverock? I'll trade you one of each of the ones I made up for some.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 12, 2010, 23:54:51: What if we just applied the sand to the large tiles, mounted frags then once they grew, cut their mat and peeled them off?
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 12, 2010, 23:55:40: The 1/4 ones would be perfect.

They are made from Portland Cement Type 1 and Reef Grade Sand. I just ordered some white Type 1 this is suppose to be in this week.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 12, 2010, 23:56:39: wow nice jod thats a good idea
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 13, 2010, 00:00:39: Quote from: jd on February 12, 2010, 23:54:51
What if we just applied the sand to the large tiles, mounted frags then once they grew, cut their mat and peeled them off?

I think that would work pretty good.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 13, 2010, 00:06:50: Now I wish I had some 4x4 tiles here...

Be back, I'm going to the bathroom with a screwdriver...
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 13, 2010, 00:08:38: make sure u clean them first lol
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 13, 2010, 00:11:09: Quote from: jd on February 13, 2010, 00:06:50
Now I wish I had some 4x4 tiles here...

Be back, I'm going to the bathroom with a screwdriver...

Why not it is a rental right?
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: Kenn on February 13, 2010, 00:15:47: This is a great idea JD. i think we are going to give it a try as well
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: UDflyer00 on February 13, 2010, 10:54:12: If you guys start getting some grow out and want a foster home for some frags let me know!! I love the Zoa's!! :D haha...
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: ghurlag on February 13, 2010, 10:54:35: Meeeeeeee too!
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 13, 2010, 11:28:00: ill be 3rd
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 13, 2010, 22:49:53: Quote from: UDflyer00 on February 13, 2010, 10:54:12
If you guys start getting some grow out and want a foster home for some frags let me know!! I love the Zoa's!! :D haha...

No.

Quote from: ghurlag on February 13, 2010, 10:54:35
Meeeeeeee too!

No.

Quote from: HUNGER on February 13, 2010, 11:28:00
ill be 3rd

No.

;D ;D ;D

If you want to give this idea a try, let me know I'll hook you all up with some tiles

I liked Lazy's idea of larger tiles, but I was worried that cutting them that many times would end up breaking the tiles. I played around with cutting a square on the 2x2 tiles and peeling the silicone off.

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0330.jpg&hash=8bad158ff955e2fe04daa9bdf05c3360d6186a62)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0329.jpg&hash=9518645f3709aa17e16a98def3b5d21ab9d89784)

That works really well, the hold together nicely and are very pliable. So I made up a large (4"x4" tile that could have 3 or 4 different zoas on it.

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0328.jpg&hash=2015a7591ea9c07de8c8b3dbf2def60eea9c1f92)

My only concern is how well superglue will hold to silicone. I did a test and am waiting for it to dry to see how well it holds.

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0331.jpg&hash=7535d35f78e523acaf3e92f4f82ef483284fa1b3)

If the glue doesn't hold, I am going to try to mix up sand and silicone into a paste and smear that on them, that will leave sand on the bottom of the mat that glue will stick too.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: Rayman on February 13, 2010, 23:10:25: This is amazing Jd great idea,looking forward to more info, also i have a wet saw that i was given i have not even tried it out yet but if you would like to try it out let me know.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 13, 2010, 23:37:30: Thanks Ray! I'm gonna frag up some zoas and mount them tomorrow
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 13, 2010, 23:53:04: I want to give this a try Josh. Would sure beat cutting up frag plugs when it is time to propagate. I think we could probably cut right through the sand/silicone with scissors. Sure would be easier on the Z's & P's.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 13, 2010, 23:57:20: Quote from: Lazylivin on February 13, 2010, 23:53:04
I want to give this a try Josh. Would sure beat cutting up frag plugs when it is time to propagate. I think we could probably cut right through the sand/silicone with scissors. Sure would be easier on the Z's & P's.

Brian, do want some of the large tiles? I make you up a handful tonight if so. The glue is holding pretty well
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: cyberwollf on February 13, 2010, 23:58:04: Quote from: Lazylivin on February 13, 2010, 23:53:04
the Z's & P's.

Slinging the Propagation Lingo :laugh:
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 14, 2010, 00:12:39: Quote from: jd on February 13, 2010, 23:57:20
Brian, do want some of the large tiles? I make you up a handful tonight if so. The glue is holding pretty well

If they are under 4" then I would two of them. We can mount some zoa's to it tomorrow and I can send you home with some Djton Pink and Gold's for your trouble. ;D
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 14, 2010, 00:14:01: Quote from: cyberwollf on February 13, 2010, 23:58:04
Slinging the Propagation Lingo :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgbH04g6mXs# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgbH04g6mXs#)
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: cyberwollf on February 14, 2010, 00:17:40: I love that video. Who is that guy?, hes got alot of pics in some of Calfo's books

"better believe I even eat the Algae!"
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 14, 2010, 00:23:16: Quote from: Lazylivin on February 14, 2010, 00:12:39
If they are under 4" then I would two of them. We can mount some zoa's to it tomorrow and I can send you home with some Djton Pink and Gold's for your trouble. ;D

Great video Brian :)

They are 4.25" square. I'll try to come out tomorrow, but with valentines say and all... Wednesday might work better. I'll let you know either way.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 14, 2010, 09:28:16: good video
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 14, 2010, 13:48:32: Look like the superglue gel will hold fine to the silicone.

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0333.jpg&hash=9274445582face0d6d5aae74ab966e2518f48310)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi667.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv32%2Fjdoolin%2FIMGP0335.jpg&hash=622e058ebfcb6644fc49a6e68e92714df6a8ad72)
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: Rayman on February 14, 2010, 14:47:22: paging Dr fragtastic! paging Dr fragtastic!
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 14, 2010, 20:10:48: yes it does
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 15, 2010, 00:03:53: Mounted two 2 polyp frags of Nikki's AOG and a small mat of GSP tonight. I'll snap some shots tomorrow, lights are out.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 15, 2010, 08:12:19: cool cant wait to see
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 15, 2010, 20:48:05: Here is some DIY plugs I made this weekend.

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi486.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr227%2Flazylivin%2FDIY%2520Frag%2520Plugs%2FDIYFragPlugs072.jpg&hash=57774b4675fbd1fa377091697d01dca8b4fbd6d4)

(https://ohioreef.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi486.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr227%2Flazylivin%2FDIY%2520Frag%2520Plugs%2FDIYFragPlugs060.jpg&hash=89835689f7fbf34d12e01f2648a4d80541d7cf76)
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: cyberwollf on February 15, 2010, 21:00:51: looks great, what did you say you made them out of?
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 15, 2010, 21:11:36: Wow Brian, those look great! I think you put way more work into yours then I did to mine ;)
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: lazylivin on February 15, 2010, 22:09:29: Here is a DIY thread. http://www.ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=3289.0 (http://www.ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=3289.0)
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jd on February 15, 2010, 22:35:23: Thanks Brian.

I have a new idea for my frag tank.(saltwater is mixing!)

I want to get a large 10"x10" tile, sand it and set it on the bottom of the tank and mount alot of different zoas to it. Above that I want to try the frag system in this issue of Reef Hobbyist. that way I can keep more frags and not waste any space.
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: HUNGER on February 15, 2010, 22:42:47: those are sweet lazy
Title: Re: Zoa Propagation Ideas
Post by: jayare on March 04, 2010, 12:08:31: I wish I would have had some of those solutions back when I was fragging.