Author Topic: DIY LEDs All you need to know (Read 4058 times)

DarinSchmidt · « **on:** May 02, 2011, 11:50:31 »

Some of these are advanced, some are for beginners, but i figured i would throw this out there for people who dont know about them to educate and inspire. The only limitations to what you can do are physics and your imagination. As you will see if you read through these, most use meanwells, most of those use dimmable ones which is fantastic if you want to be able to dim them to dark for acclimating corals/fish/etc or to be able to hook an Andruino to it to automate/replicate sunrise and sunset or a number of other things.

However if you follow the LED on a budget guide, you save a ton of money, can be more efficient, can have the same dimming capabilities, and can typically power more devices if needed, just have to build the parts. But the meanwells are a nice all-in-one package for many who dont want to mess with it or dont have good electrical skills.

The last post has a before and after image of a nano tank and DWZM (who is pretty popular in the DIY section) states a lot of things true about LEDs at this current time, basically with how there are no standards. Thats why when i first entered into this about a year ago with making my LEDs i did several experiments, bougth a PAR sensor, etc, and played with them, recorded some data, and am trying to divise a mathematical solution for general questions i can put into a java program. It of course will be a guide more than a fact/standard, but a step towards something to help.

LEDs are very flexible, from color, brightness, drivers, placements, led spacing, etc. Things can get as complicated or as simple as you want. There are many things to consider when wanting to make a LED setup, such as, what do you want to have in your tank (types of coral or fish only tank), how much room do you have to play with, budget, tank size, how even do you want your light coverage to be, optics, etc. As Wall_Tank mentioned (DIY LED question post #43), you can design your LED system to give you darker areas for less intense corals, they dont all have to be 1.5"-3.5" on center.

Datasheets for XPG and XPE CREE LEDs

DIY LEDs - The write up

DIY LED on a budget

DIY LED driver reef lighting

DIY LED controller

Easy step by step LED build

The LED results and reference thread

DIY LED Array build

DIY LED for a 12g Nano Reef Tank - HELP

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2011, 13:23:32 »

here is a little something i whipped up to show you how much money you could save switching to LEDs if anyone was curious

Feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

For me this is how i figured it out, comparing to 3 400w MHs, tank is 300g. Lights on 11hrs a day, 365 days a year (not counting leap years to keep it simple). I done some digging through my electric bills and on avg including tax and all that junk, each Kw comes out to about 11 cents. I may have only needed 2 MH's but i based it off of 3 since my tank is 8' long.

This example is also only including the energy needed to power the MH bulbs, the LEDs consumption includes the power draw straight from the outlet.

MH
11*400*3=13200 (13.2kw/day)
13.2*.11=145.2 cents per day($1.452)
145.2*7 days= $10.164 per week
10.164*52= $528.53 per year

LED
The system i have uses less than 100w but we will use 100 to keep it simple and i have 4 of them

11hrs*100w*4units=4400 (4.4Kw per day)
4.4*.11= $0.484 cents per day
.484*7=$3.388 per week
3.388*52=$176.18 per year

a savings of (528-176=$352) in electricity

bulb replacement costs:
$60 roughly not including tax or shipping??? needs replaced every 9mo from what i have read.

Heres where things to me get a little hairy, i have read that the Cree bulbs are "supposed" to last 100k hrs, but since 50k seems to be a standard for most, i compared them to 50k hrs, not essentially years at first.

LEDs at

11*365=4015hrs/year
a MH gets replaced every 3011.25hrs
50,000/3011.25= 16.6(17 bulb replacements * 3 = 51)
54* 60= $3240 in bulb replacements every 50k hrs

So the total costs (only including bulb replacements and electricity)
Lights will be on for a total of 4004hrs a year, thats 12.5years

MH
12.5* 528.53 = $6606.63 + 3240 = $9846.63
LED
12.5*176.18=$2202.25

LED savings of $7644.38

just to show you how bright they are at 100w each

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2011, 14:05:24 »

Quote from: DarinSchmidt on May 02, 2011, 13:23:32

CORRECTION

11*365=4015hrs/year
a MH gets replaced every 3011.25hrs
50,000/3011.25= 16.6(17 bulb replacements * 3 = 51)
51* 60= $3060 in bulb replacements every 50k hrs

So the total costs (only including bulb replacements and electricity)
Lights will be on for a total of 4004hrs a year, thats 12.5years

MH
12.5* 528.53 = $6606.63 + 3060 = $9666.63
LED
12.5*176.18=$2202.25

LED savings of $7464.38

cyberwollf · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2011, 17:10:58 »

whats the initial investment on LEDs to replace three 400w MHs?

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2011, 17:17:59 »

i have seen some MH units cost around 1200 that come with the t5 actinics, each unit i made was roughly 400 * 4, 1600, 2k max (because i got a few other things i would like to add as far as functionality). so even with the price difference, you save a substantial amount over 50k hrs.

cyberwollf · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2011, 17:22:07 »

Quote from: DarinSchmidt on May 02, 2011, 17:17:59

i have seen some MH units cost around 1200 that come with the t5 actinics, each unit i made was roughly 400 * 4, 1600, 2k max (because i got a few other things i would like to add as far as functionality). so even with the price difference, you save a substantial amount over 50k hrs.

How many LEDs with optics are you equating to a 400w MH?

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2011, 17:28:57 »

28 with 60 degree optics. I have seen some stats that say their PAR was around 300 at the sandbed with using 400w MH, and were achieving 200PAR at 23" depth. Mine gets 360 at that deep because of the optics.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2011, 17:42:00 »

Quote from: cyberwollf on May 02, 2011, 17:10:58

whats the initial investment on LEDs to replace three 400w MHs?

oh, i'm sorry i think i misunderstood your question. the LEDs themselves cost $6 each RB and 7 each CW. 14 of each.

Viggen · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2011, 18:30:33 »

great thread.... thanks!!! I have been debating on trying LED's but the up front cost keeps me away for now. I use (or I guess will use when it's finally running) three 250w MH's on my 10ft tank & I have been wondering what I could get by with if I did the switch. My tanks are not reef but FO tanks thus PAR doesn't really mean anything to me

Any guess on what I could get a LED setup for on my tank?

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2011, 18:39:08 »

Quote from: Viggen on May 02, 2011, 18:30:33

great thread.... thanks!!! I have been debating on trying LED's but the up front cost keeps me away for now. I use (or I guess will use when it's finally running) three 250w MH's on my 10ft tank & I have been wondering what I could get by with if I did the switch. My tanks are not reef but FO tanks thus PAR doesn't really mean anything to me Any guess on what I could get a LED setup for on my tank?

Why would you put MH over a FO tank? Do you want it that bright? All of this tank has been for a SPS targeted tank. I would bet you could cut the amount of LED's in half with wider optics, or no optics and get a good looking tank for a FO.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2011, 18:47:41 »

i agree with Wall. 1/2 the LEDs and wider spread without optics to help prevent shadows mostly. Would save you a good deal of money and reduce the wattage needed to run them. I'd have to look into it some more to get you a ballpark price. You could prob use some uchannel aluminum at lowes/home depot too and save a bit there. Get a 24v PSU with a fuse. Wouldnt be expensive. Guessing you would want all Cool white LEDs?

Viggen · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2011, 20:25:21 »

My reasoning for MH is the looks, I like the shimmering that MH's put out & when I started the hobby years ago that was the only way to get it done. They also seem to bring out the best color in the fish, I tried PC's & VHO's but by far my favorite was MH...... I have never tried T5

My last tank was a 5ft long 260g & I used a pair of 175w MH's on that. I upreaded to 250's since it wasn't enough lighting (to many dead spots) & I then read a article on luminarc III reflectors vs the spider reflectors I used. I purchased a pair of Luminarc III's & quickly realized I could of easily got by with 175w MH's on the old tank. I figure I could probably sell my luminarc's, 250w ballasts & bulbs for a few hundred bucks but I am not sure how well 175w MH's work on a 30in deep tank

I do not run the lights 11 hrs a day..... still waiting on my filter to get fixed..... but I plan on using a single light 8-10hrs a day with all 3 light from dark to 11 PM or so

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2011, 20:42:33 »

How high above the tank can you mount the fixtures? If you can get LED's mounted higher, you'll get better coverage. LED's will give you great shimmer.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2011, 20:45:57 »

yeah, LEDs do make a nice shimmer, tantric almost.

Viggen · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2011, 21:21:11 »

I think I have 2ft of room above the tank

I forgot to say I used icecap 20K bulbs, wasn't a fan of the lower K bulbs

Even though I am FO I still want lighting that shows off the colors of the fish

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2011, 21:35:37 »

nothing wrong with that. There are other types of LED colors you can mix in to get you possibly similar effects.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2011, 21:57:16 »

Quote from: Viggen on May 02, 2011, 21:21:11

I think I have 2ft of room above the tank

I forgot to say I used icecap 20K bulbs, wasn't a fan of the lower K bulbs

Even though I am FO I still want lighting that shows off the colors of the fish

Any center braces that we have to avoid. This is just a guess But LED's on a 4" center would probably work. 55" x 8.5 heat sink. Would put about 42 leds on that. 3 rows of 14. You could power that with 3 meanwell 60-48 drivers. You would need two of these.

This would be per fixture.
Drivers $105
Heatsink $125
LED's $300
Fans - Might not need any with low amount of LED's on a large sink.
DIY Assembly - Priceless

The concern is what happens if this is not bright enough for you.....while this is scalable, adding additional drivers and LED;s could double the price. What I would suggest is to go see someone that has a fixture, although most of us using LED's have a pretty dense LED pattern for SPS.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2011, 22:08:09 »

If you went with XPE cool whites (since you will prob still power them down anyways) they are $5 each, thats $210, and get a PSU from Circuit Specialists for around $50 and a couple $0.80 fuses to save some extra money.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2011, 22:08:52 »

going with one of these cheaper PSU's will give you plenty of scalability if you need to add more LEDs

Viggen · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2011, 18:32:31 »

I have been doing a little searching on some of the online vendors & trying to get a idea of what it would cost to buy something pre made vs the prices you listed & also compare that to what I can sell my stuff for & of coarse the cost of just sticking with MH.

Looks like my last DP&L bill shows 7.3 cents per KWH

If I average 8hrs a day with the 750w from my MH's that's $13.32 a month

If I would go with 4 of the tru lumen pro led's from premium at about $135 ea (4ft LED strip) which consumes 30w plus their power supply at $25 I am looking at $590 & 120w of power which equals $2.13 a month.

Guessing I could get $500-600 out of my MH stuff (3 Icecap ballast, 3 luminarc reflectors, 2 new bulbs)

But like mentioned above would that be enough light?

They also have the illumilux LED fixtures, two 48in units would be about $800 & give me 136w of light costing about $2.50 a month

I also saw those PAR38 bulbs that fit in standard fitting, are those worth it? Didn't know how many of those I would need since they are about $120 ea & I think 21w. If I went with 4 of these per opening I would have about 240w of LED lighting.

I forgot to say yea the tank does have two center braces. It's acrylic & I have three opening that are 2+ft long so it shouldn't be a issue if the lighting goes through the braces

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2011, 18:54:50 »

To me PAR38s are way overpriced. Do you have some links to those leds so I can compare specs.

lazylivin · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2011, 22:13:39 »

Viggen don't forget to factor in the cost of heating the tank, especially with a tank your size. Likely heaters are on only when lights are off. With LED's heaters could be on when lights are on which could consume a significant portion of the savings.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2011, 22:22:20 »

Quote from: Lazylivin on May 03, 2011, 22:13:39

Viggen don't forget to factor in the cost of heating the tank, especially with a tank your size. Likely heaters are on only when lights are off. With LED's heaters could be on when lights are on which could consume a significant portion of the savings.

And deduct Chillers and Fans in the summer time.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2011, 22:23:57 »

true to both of you. I wonder if running heaters with LEDs balances out running chillers/fans with MH's or how close the two are to consumption.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2011, 22:34:36 »

Quote from: DarinSchmidt on May 03, 2011, 22:23:57

true to both of you. I wonder if running heaters with LEDs balances out running chillers/fans with MH's or how close the two are to consumption.

The only way to be sure is to do total system load monitoring, through all seasons.

Wintertime: definitely the heaters are going to run more. But a heater is more efficient at heating water than lights.
Summertime: Should be able to avoid chillers, possibly even fans. Will help with not heating the house as much.

2024 Ohio Reef Frag Swap

Author Topic: DIY LEDs All you need to know (Read 4058 times)