Advice: Fish per Gallon or Fish per Surface Area

[MasonRob]

I've heard multiple hypothesis over the years for both fresh and salt water tanks.
I have a reef/coral tank with live fish and am thinking about upgrading to a bigger tank.  Have to take down another project first so this is in the infancy planning stages - maybe mid-summer.  Going to take it really slow and build the LEDs, plumb the sump, etc. before JUMPING in...
I have a working tank so I can be more patient this time.

For Salt Water I've heard 1" fish for every 5 gal of water.  Not sure if that includes the water in the sump but I figured I would use that water as my 'safety net' in case fish grow too fast, etc. 

I also remember that there was a calculation based on the surface area of the tank.  Again - do you include the surface area of your sump?
This makes a lot of sense as the gas exchange out into the air...

Looking for guidance so I know what size tank to get next... 

MasonRob

[Boonjob]

There really isnt a specific rule for this topic... most of what you hear are rules of thumb, and not really applicable to every species...

Something like tangs need alot of room to move freely, where as a 3" clown not so much. If you are just gauging bioloads then I would say 1" of fish per 5 gallons is a great start for a medium bioload, but for guaging tank size... it just isn't an accurate mesaure IMO.

It would be more beneficial to see what you want to keep fish wise first then plan the tank accordingly... If you plan on having tangs and have the ability to choose I wouldnt go less than a 6ft tank or a Large Cube or similar tank(though the 6ft+ would still be better)....


You would calculate your surface area of the sump or any exposed units of water for the intents of gas exchange and cooling... Though you should not include your sump or un inhabitated sections of the tank for purposes of bioload.

[bkvreef]

I agree with boonjob.  The best recommendation is to use the knowledge base here.  Put together a "wish list."  Ask for input.
Whatever you do DON'T use youtube videos as a reference    way overcrowding on most!

Good Luck

[MasonRob]

As in most things...it depends.  At least that is what I get out of most of what I have read online or otherwise.  I definitely want tangs and a variety of fish and I want them to have room. At the same time not looking for a shark tank either...

My 2-3 years out tank will be HUGE...  HUGE will be 6 ft or greater in length.  BUT we are planning on moving south in 12-24 months so I'm not getting that one now.  I haven't seen a good way to move a tank from Ohio to FLA and have things survive.  Most of the advice is sell off your Ohio tank and build a new tank in FLA which I can understand.

Currently I have a 29/30 gl tank with a 15 gal sump.  Kinda limiting my groove if you know what I mean. Right now we have only 4 fish and a lot of crabs, snails, a few shrimp, a sand star, a variety of corals, etc.  Looking at possibly (need to get the tank and LEDs past the appropriations committee / boss) getting a 50-80 gal tank as an interim tank.  Want to use it to learn about LEDs, get to spread things (rocks, corals) out a bit, get some more corals and fish and enjoy it more.  Will be a serious conversation before I take this leap.  Don't want to build it and move 3 months later, don't want to not build it and the move never comes...

Meanwhile I get it - 1" fish per 5 gal water is a rule of thumb.  Does anyone have a similar calculation based upon surface area?  Want to see how they jive.  Also may help make decision on dimensions of next tank. Depth vs length x width.

MasonRob

[Viggen]

get as big of tank as you can.... & it will still be to small

There really is no rule of thumb 1in per x gallons due to the huge variety in attitude between different types of fish & even the same fish.   10 inches of undulated trigger does not equal 10inches of goby, pj cardinals etc.

Like stated list what fish do you want, or think you want & see where that goes. 

You can also go the route of I have a xx ft long wall to throw a tank up and $XXXX money to buy the tank.....

Some calculate sump into purchaseing a skimmer which I think is wrong just like figuring out what fish to go in the tank.  The sump is a filter & has nothing to do with what fits in your tank that is if the sump is sized properly.
 
Many tangs and large angels need LOTS of room
 

[MasonRob]

Fish wish list (prone to be added to but you will get the general idea): Note: # of Tangs, Angels may decrease for this interim tank to allow for more variety.

Tangs (probably just a couple): I have a small Hippo (x<2" right now) - every tank has to have a Dory...right?
Angels (again probably just a couple): Yellow or Lemon Peel
Cardinals (probably 3-5 so they can school)
Gobys - just think they are cool.
B/W Clown Pair (got em now)
Red/White Clown - Oceolis (sp?) - lost the other one from the pair a couple months ago.
Wife would love to have Sea Horses, a puffer, Lion fish, etc. but not everything seems to be compatible into one tank.
I am 1000% percent certain she has more ideas, etc.  Thank goodness the local pet stores aren't better stocked with exotic fish or I would be in trouble.

As we all know - it can get out of hand quickly...  Setting a 'build budget' makes sense.  Never been good at limiting myself to said budget but...
That is why finding a used RR tank via forums like this one, craigslist (buyer beware) vs buying new seems appropriate. 
Certainly not calling the guys from TANKED to come and make me one.  Don't have that type of JACK. Got kids to put thru college and such.

MasonRob

[MasonRob]

For the build budget there are things I would be moving up into (my own RO unit, etc.) that will come into play.  Especially for the 2-3 year out tank... 

The costs are not linear - more like a hyperbola...

MasonRob

[Viggen]

LOVE to know how much they gouge..... rrrrr I mean get out of their tanks.  Many of their tanks are very unique but so time consuming.....

Most tangs have to much attitude for 75g +/- tang.  Possibly something like a kole tang or similar tang would work.  Most others including your Hep just get to large for that size tank

Possibly a Hawk fish could be added, flame hawks are my favorite.  Great personality & color....

Lion - no.... even a dwarf lion would probably eat some of the other fish in there. 

Puffer - the valentini puffers stay small & might work.  Others might know how they do in a reef setup.....


With moving the best way would be to have a tank setup in florida & just box the fish up like how they are shipped to us. They are fine for a day or so in the box but much more then 36hrs is pushing it.... I have brought fish back from the Keys a few times (wholesaler in Marathon FL) in the back of a car or RV. 

[MasonRob]

Never thought about transporting fish back from South Florida.  I am going to Miami/Coral Gables next week to pick up my son from College - he is studying Biology/Marine Science at the U of Miami.  A side trip down to Marathon...hmmmm.

MasonRob

[Boonjob]

he is studying Biology/Marine Science at the U of Miami.

<---- Jealous

[MasonRob]

Personally - I could not have gone to college there.  I was far too distractable to go to college in such a location with natural beauty of all types.  Lush scenary all around.  I had enough trouble at OSU...

Just saying.
MasonRob 

[Boonjob]

Agreed!!!

LOL I'm so distractable I never make it through the brochures.... I have attention deficit  ooohhh shiney disorder.

[Viggen]

You need a wholesale license to get it from where I went.... they had a few 6ft+ sharks is QT when I was there, hammer head was so cool looking.  The shop has supplied fish to some of the biggest aquariums in the world but their facility was like a shack.... a big shack

There are numerous wholesalers in Miami that you could get stuff from, again with a wholesale license.  I hope to order fish from a wholesaler that's just north in Michigan, so much easier just letting them deliver them to me vs doing the mad dash from FL & worrying about if they will make it.  I hope to order fish in early July....