Author Topic: Poison Dart Frogs (Read 5454 times)

gthorpe2 · « **on:** August 10, 2011, 17:42:17 »

As some of you may know, I am an amature poison dart frog collector/breeder. I've been asked so many questions from people that are interested I decided I would make a post about them. Here you can ask, share, or even gain knowledge on PDFs. I've gotten alot of my knowledge from breeders, websites, and just from experience.

Most questions I get are, "Are they poisonious? What do they eat? Can I touch them? Where do you get them? Can I own them?" I will try my best to answer all these questions and more.

"Are they poisonious?" Yes and No; They are poisonious in the wild but in captivite they are NOT poisonious. They get there poison from insects/diet they eat in the wild. In captivite, they can eat wingless fruit flies, bean beetles, springtails, flour beetles, just to name a few.

"Can I touch them?" NO!!!; It is not recommended to hold or "play" with PDFs. It will stress them out, and they could potenially die.

"Where do you get them?" I purchase mine from local breeders. But PDFs orginate from the rainforests in South America.

"Can I own one?" of course; Anyone can own them as long as they are housed in a controlled environment just like saltwater fish. PDF have to have certain temps and humidity which humidity has to stay above 80% and temp no lower than 70 degrees at night.

"How many can I have in a tank?"; The rule of thumb is 1 frog per 5 gallons. So, if you have a 20g tank you could have 4 frogs.

I have had serval types of PDFs including Azureus, Patricas, and Bakhuis. I've had beginners to experts frogs and find that the easier the care, the beautiful they are.

What do you need to start your PDF tank?
10g tank
glass lid
LECA balls (used in hydrophonics)
Substrate (mix between ochrid bark and a block of the compressed dirt)
Live plants (Moss, Broms, etc.)
Food (Fruit Flies)
Let it "cycle" for about two weeks then add the PDFs.

Below are some of the websites I have gotten my knowledge from and purchased stuff from. There is a local breeder in Columbus that doesn't have a website but is always at the local reptile shows.

www.Dendroboard.com
www.Joshsfrogs.com
www.Blackjungle.com

If anyone has any questions about PDFs you can post here or PM me.

I will try and get some pictures of my current frogs up in the next day or so. I don't have any froglets or tadpoles yet but with in the next year when the frogs become mature I should have some.

If anyone needs help putting a tank together I would be more than happy to help. I don't charge anything as long as you have all the supplies, but a frag would be cool.

Hope this helps out some of those questions.

Reefpete · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2011, 19:04:19 »

Thank you!

dendroman1 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2011, 19:43:46 »

Hello! I am new to your site just today. I live in Troy and I am a PDF breeder as well. I have some of my animals available at Aquatic Specialist here in Troy. I also am selling built Vivarium tanks too through the store. I can also help someone to build one if they need it local. If you are close to or have not been into Aquatic Specialists in awhile, come on in and see what they have. I will be willing to do whatever I can to assist anyone in setting up and maintaining a vivarium for PDFs. Thank You.

Wes

Reefpete · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2011, 20:56:59 »

Great to know! Thank you

lazylivin · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2011, 11:49:39 »

Welcome to the site Dendroman.. love the handle
Good post gthorpe thanks for sharing

slandis3 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2011, 12:01:02 »

Quote from: dendroman1 on August 11, 2011, 19:43:46

Hello! I am new to your site just today. I live in Troy and I am a PDF breeder as well. I have some of my animals available at Aquatic Specialist here in Troy. I also am selling built Vivarium tanks too through the store. I can also help someone to build one if they need it local. If you are close to or have not been into Aquatic Specialists in awhile, come on in and see what they have. I will be willing to do whatever I can to assist anyone in setting up and maintaining a vivarium for PDFs. Thank You.

Wes

Welcome to the club. I am building a tank for my son's FBT. When he gets older I am probably going to build a new tank for PDF's. My wife has wanted a blue ( don't remember the ame) PDF for a long time.

Reefpete · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2011, 12:19:51 »

Quote from: slandis3 on August 13, 2011, 12:01:02

Welcome to the club. I am building a tank for my son's FBT. When he gets older I am probably going to build a new tank for PDF's. My wife has wanted a blue ( don't remember the ame) PDF for a long time.

Dendrobates azureus?

HUNGER · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2011, 13:31:11 »

man i dont need to get back in to this hobby again

Boonjob · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2011, 13:43:10 »

I think these things are awesome, I have always wanted one, but was afraid someone would go touching it and become ill(didn't know they aren't poisonous in captivity)... I may have to look into getting one... Quick question... do they stink? I personally can not stand the smell that certain reptiles give off, which is the major reason I have never owned any

lazylivin · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2011, 14:22:28 »

Quote from: Reefpete on August 13, 2011, 12:19:51

Dendrobates azureus?

And here I thought it was Dendrophyllia Coral

Reefpete · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2011, 16:42:36 »

Quote from: HUNGER on August 13, 2011, 13:31:11

man i dont need to get back in to this hobby again

IMHO it was cheaper that a reef tank by far!

Reefpete · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2011, 16:47:24 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 13, 2011, 13:43:10

I think these things are awesome, I have always wanted one, but was afraid someone would go touching it and become ill(didn't know they aren't poisonous in captivity)... I may have to look into getting one... Quick question... do they stink? I personally can not stand the smell that certain reptiles give off, which is the major reason I have never owned any

I never found them to stink. Very small reptiles, even smaller food, and tiny poop! lol The toxin that they have in the wild only is from the plant life and the food that they consume in the wild

Quote from: gthorpe2 on August 10, 2011, 17:42:17

Most questions I get are, "Are they poisonious? What do they eat? Can I touch them? Where do you get them? Can I own them?" I will try my best to answer all these questions and more.
"Are they poisonious?" Yes and No; They are poisonious in the wild but in captivite they are NOT poisonious. They get there poison from insects/diet they eat in the wild. In captivite, they can eat wingless fruit flies, bean beetles, springtails, flour beetles, just to name a few.

dendroman1 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2011, 17:33:43 »

I have never had any on them cause an odor issue. I have a breeding pair of the blue azureus, a pair of the green and black, a pair of tinctorius patricia and a trio of vittatus.

Reefpete · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2011, 17:39:59 »

Quote from: dendroman1 on August 13, 2011, 17:33:43

I have never had any on them cause an odor issue. I have a breeding pair of the blue azureus, a pair of the green and black, a pair of tinctorius patricia and a trio of vittatus.

What would be your recommendation for "beginner" PDF's? I have a choice between the fallowing aquariums to use for their enclosure 30L, 38, and a 40 breeder. Any suggestions? Are you on Dendroboard?

HUNGER · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2011, 18:09:03 »

is this the one u want mike?

Boonjob · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2011, 18:09:24 »

I have a 10gal that I may need to use

Boonjob · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2011, 18:11:07 »

What plants would you suggest, I really love the look of the pic above

Reefpete · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2011, 19:03:19 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 13, 2011, 18:11:07

What plants would you suggest, I really love the look of the pic above

www.Blackjungle.com this is a great place to look at plants

slandis3 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2011, 19:32:10 »

Yep thats the one. After connors new tank is done I may look into building a tank for these guys.

Boonjob · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2011, 19:43:05 »

Quote from: Reefpete on August 13, 2011, 19:03:19

www.Blackjungle.com this is a great place to look at plants

thanks for the link pete...

Quote from: Reefpete on August 13, 2011, 17:39:59

I have a choice between the fallowing aquariums to use for their enclosure 30L, 38, and a 40 breeder.

How about you let me get one of those tanks for these guys

I want a frog like this

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=poison+dart+frog&view=detail&id=9DF6FD41F28B6D2F1F5B14487D931CA9CF412180&first=0&qpvt=poison+dart+frog&FORM=IDFRIR

Reefpete · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2011, 21:05:19 »

Which one would you want BJ?

Boonjob · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2011, 23:07:15 »

Not really sure, I have a 10 gallon but I think making a mini waterfall with plants and "downed limbs" and such would be cool, but my 10 isn't tall enough for all that.

Will these guys favor a tall tank over a wide one etc? I guess I need to do so more research I'm pretty excited about it now haha, tie me over until I can figure out a new reef setup

slandis3 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 13, 2011, 23:10:54 »

Check this site out for a lot of info.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/

Boonjob · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2011, 23:12:56 »

Oh lord not another hobby related forum board... I will add it to my rounds, thanks mike

kattz · « **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2011, 23:42:31 »

We're looking at a tank from Dendroman. His work is awesome to say the least.

HUNGER · « **Reply #25 on:** August 14, 2011, 00:44:46 »

i had on made from a 60 tall with a watter fall from the back and i had one from a standard 55

Reefpete · « **Reply #26 on:** August 14, 2011, 07:51:32 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 13, 2011, 23:07:15

Will these guys favor a tall tank over a wide one etc?

I have been told that for most of the pdf's that I will ever be interested in, the more ground space the better.

gthorpe2 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 15, 2011, 10:26:53 »

WOW this thread has taken off!!!

Most PDF's need more ground space than climbing.

The best beginner frogs I would say are the azureus or "bumble bee" frogs. They are very hardy.

As for an odor, I haven't noticed any odors that come off of them.

HUNGER · « **Reply #28 on:** August 15, 2011, 14:36:14 »

ok i see a diy work shop in the future

Boonjob · « **Reply #29 on:** August 15, 2011, 14:39:11 »

Quote from: gthorpe2 on August 15, 2011, 10:26:53

WOW this thread has taken off!!! Most PDF's need more ground space than climbing.

The best beginner frogs I would say are the azureus or "bumble bee" frogs. They are very hardy.

As for an odor, I haven't noticed any odors that come off of them.

Thanks for the info gthorpe, if it wasn't for your post I honestly would not have paid these guys any attention as I always thought they looked awesome but was shy'd away by the thought of poison and smell.

Quote from: HUNGER on August 15, 2011, 14:36:14

ok i see a diy work shop in the future

I would deffinately be down for this, I think these guys are awesome

Quote from: Reefpete on August 13, 2011, 21:05:19

Which one would you want BJ?

Which ever you don't want would be fine with me, I am not picky. the 38 is fine if you dont want it i know you said it has that hole in an inconvient place(I can work around that)

Reefpete · « **Reply #30 on:** August 15, 2011, 16:33:05 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 15, 2011, 14:39:11

Which ever you don't want would be fine with me, I am not picky. the 38 is fine if you dont want it i know you said it has that hole in an inconvient place(I can work around that)

Sure thing buddy! Yeah, there was a bulkhead in the back pane of glass. I'm sure that can be easily covered however. I'll see about getting it out of storage for you.

Boonjob · « **Reply #31 on:** August 15, 2011, 16:43:49 »

I appreciate it, sir

Boonjob · « **Reply #32 on:** August 15, 2011, 16:57:23 »

Boonjob · « **Reply #33 on:** August 15, 2011, 22:19:32 »

Intense setup

http://www.dartfrogz.com/f8/90-gallon-rebuild-*pic-heavy*-146/

HUNGER · « **Reply #34 on:** August 15, 2011, 23:32:20 »

heck ya it is

Reefpete · « **Reply #35 on:** August 16, 2011, 05:20:11 »

I like this one better! The poster has a "few" other postings on the setup. This one being his most up to date.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jgrimmier#p/u/0/bXu7XFGLTLY

HUNGER · « **Reply #36 on:** August 16, 2011, 08:12:18 »

that ones ok

Boonjob · « **Reply #37 on:** August 16, 2011, 11:17:36 »

Anyone else interested in this and wanna get together a group purchase on plants etc? and a workshop for building backdrops etc?

HUNGER · « **Reply #38 on:** August 16, 2011, 15:23:16 »

i would love to but not at this time have to finsh switching over tanks first

slandis3 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2011, 15:40:40 »

Quote from: HUNGER on August 16, 2011, 15:23:16

i would love to but not at this time have to finsh switching over tanks first

However after the switch you will have a nice 150g tank to use as a frog tank.

HUNGER · « **Reply #40 on:** August 16, 2011, 15:42:49 »

ya i would BUT no unells i could sell the 200

Boonjob · « **Reply #41 on:** August 16, 2011, 16:41:19 »

Well I am looking to maybe start something in the next week or so. Gonna read up on it as much as I can till then

micki · « **Reply #42 on:** August 16, 2011, 17:51:10 »

Cody when are you setting up another fish tank?

Boonjob · « **Reply #43 on:** August 16, 2011, 18:00:09 »

Quote from: micki on August 16, 2011, 17:51:10

Cody when are you setting up another fish tank?

Well I personally don't think a 225 as planned is gonna be practical with the new addition... I have a buddy who may be going to england for work and was talking about giving me his setup to look after... so I guess I am waiting to see what goes on there before I fully decide what I want to do, I deff miss having a tank and want to set one up asap.

gthorpe2 · « **Reply #44 on:** August 16, 2011, 18:04:11 »

I could put on a workshop if needed. Just let me know if anyone has any questions about anything.

micki · « **Reply #45 on:** August 16, 2011, 21:27:07 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 16, 2011, 18:00:09

Well I personally don't think a 225 as planned is gonna be practical with the new addition... I have a buddy who may be going to england for work and was talking about giving me his setup to look after... so I guess I am waiting to see what goes on there before I fully decide what I want to do, I deff miss having a tank and want to set one up asap.

Yes, you need to get a tank up and going!

HUNGER · « **Reply #46 on:** August 16, 2011, 22:15:27 »

Quote from: gthorpe2 on August 16, 2011, 18:04:11

I could put on a workshop if needed. Just let me know if anyone has any questions about anything.

that would be cool

dendroman1 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 23, 2011, 20:26:34 »

I would be happy to help with anything I can as well. I have or can get supplies for you at Aquatic Specialists in Troy. I do have some frogs available too.

@kattz Thanks for the compliments!

Boonjob · « **Reply #48 on:** August 23, 2011, 22:17:12 »

Rock on, I have a couple gift cards for aquatic specialists, which I plan to use towards the frogs... I just got my tank today(thanks again pete) and I plan to start putting it together this weekend and letting it sit for a couple weeks

Boonjob · « **Reply #49 on:** August 24, 2011, 08:20:11 »

Was thinking of using ghost wood(as I love the look of it) and I would really like to make 2 small water dishes; I want the first to be a small elevated dish that over flows into a larger dish at ground level(forming some sort of waterfall or trickle wall)... I was thinking of using shale to form the waterfall or tricklewall, would this be a good rock?, or are there better suggestions? I like shale as I love the deep coloration and it's easy to shape and work with imo and realatively light.

Any suggestions on ground coverings? I really like the look of whatever was used in the above 90 gallon link, he didn't use moss, think I may try for that..

Also what kind of lights does everyone use? CFL,T5 ?

Also debating on if I should get a misting/spray system or should I use a fogger? or both?

How does everyone keep their tanks heated?

dendroman1 · « **Reply #50 on:** August 24, 2011, 20:18:46 »

I just use CFL, T5's are good too. 6500k is all you really need to make sure that you have for the plants. I use live moss for ground covering. There are actually several layers of different substrate materials that you need to use to get where you need to be. Misting systems are good,( you can actually make your own easy enough). Foggers are nice as well. I have used one of the little ultrasonic ones that you can place inside the tank, however, it seemed to get dirt in it pretty easy and would quit working. A lot of people use humidifiers and rig tubing to them and run it into the tank. I don't heat my tanks as it seems that the light itself keeps it warm enough inside. I live in Troy and if anyone comes over to Aquatic Specialists and sees what I have there, and would like to see the tanks that I have at my home, I can make arrangements through the store to do so. I do not work there, but the owner will help you get in touch with me. There is also information on hand there.

Boonjob · « **Reply #51 on:** August 25, 2011, 12:14:14 »

Nice, I will probably make it up that way this weekend. Are those your frogs that he has for sale? I also saw where he transfered that biocube from a seahorse display to vivarium.

I would like to talk with you about backdrop selection... I am almost 100% positive I am going to use GS, but I am not really sure what I should cover it in(i have an idea) after I am done shaping it.

dendroman1 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 25, 2011, 20:00:03 »

Yes they are my frogs. I have made tanks with GS backgrounds and some with no background at all. I have to say that when done correctly the no background at all looks just as good or better and they are easier. I have some more frogs at my home also.

Todd W. · « **Reply #53 on:** August 25, 2011, 20:04:53 »

Those are some nice looking tanks... I was up there a week or so ago and think I saw you doing some maintenance on them. My kids think they are realllllly cool.

Todd W. · « **Reply #54 on:** August 25, 2011, 20:33:22 »

Sorta off topic... Came home this morning from the Y, and this little guy was right under our front porch light pigging out...

HUNGER · « **Reply #55 on:** August 25, 2011, 21:33:59 »

thats a cool looken frog

dendroman1 · « **Reply #56 on:** August 26, 2011, 10:14:00 »

He's a grey treefrog.

dendroman1 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 26, 2011, 18:54:30 »

@Todd W. Thank you for your compliments. I hope to have some more tanks up there soon.

ohioreef · « **Reply #58 on:** August 28, 2011, 23:43:38 »

We have a 20g high tank that currently has a small turtle in it. My son has a set-up that allows you to set up the tank half water and half land.

Would a PDF be compatible with a turtle? Having something on the land would be neat.

dendroman1 · « **Reply #59 on:** August 29, 2011, 17:55:03 »

Not really. The environment needed for the two animals may vary too much. I'm sorry, but, I wouldn't recommend it myself. They aren't the best swimmers either. They don't have the webbing between their toes like aquatic frogs do. So, they can drown fairly easily if the water is very deep, which I am sure that it is.

Boonjob · « **Reply #60 on:** August 29, 2011, 18:00:53 »

I know the general consensus on dendroboard is nay, but could I be successful at keeping azreus and luecs in the same enclosure?

I have a 38 gallon, And I really love the look of the standard leucs but my wifes loves the azereus(sp)... I think the enclosure should be big enough? and I plan on making it multiple layers with a water source on both ground and mid way up.

Also I got your message, and I think I will be up in troy on Wednesday if that is still cool. around 6-7ish

Todd W. · « **Reply #61 on:** August 29, 2011, 19:06:28 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 29, 2011, 18:00:53

Also I got your message, and I think I will be up in troy on Wednesday if that is still cool. around 6-7ish

Cody,

If you are up this way, could you drop off the pump and any other equipment that you have for the school project? You can drop it at my house, Mike's or call me.

Todd

ohioreef · « **Reply #62 on:** August 29, 2011, 19:54:06 »

Quote from: dendroman1 on August 29, 2011, 17:55:03

Not really. The environment needed for the two animals may vary too much. I'm sorry, but, I wouldn't recommend it myself. They aren't the best swimmers either. They don't have the webbing between their toes like aquatic frogs do. So, they can drown fairly easily if the water is very deep, which I am sure that it is.

Thanks for the info. Just toying around with ideas of what to put on the "dry" half.

dendroman1 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 29, 2011, 22:30:44 »

Quote from: Boonjob on August 29, 2011, 18:00:53

I know the general consensus on dendroboard is nay, but could I be successful at keeping azreus and luecs in the same enclosure?

I have a 38 gallon, And I really love the look of the standard leucs but my wifes loves the azereus(sp)... I think the enclosure should be big enough? and I plan on making it multiple layers with a water source on both ground and mid way up.

Also I got your message, and I think I will be up in troy on Wednesday if that is still cool. around 6-7ish

Yes, the purist hobbyists all say not to mix species of frogs. What you do is up to you, its really not their business. They will flame you if you mention it. All I will say is that when the frogs get old enough to breed, you may end up with hybrids. Don't try to resell them back into the hobby. Just get another tank set up for offspring.

I'll warn you now, once you get started in this hobby you probably won't have to worry about hybrids cause you will probably have another tank set up by then!

Wednesday should be fine. Just call me or stop by Aquatic Specialists I should be there about that time feeding the frogs there. I have some luecs and azureus too. I like both of them as well. They are good hardy beginner frogs too. Luecs actually are more climbers, and azureus tend to stay close to the bottom of the tank. You will be able to hear the leuc males call for the females when they mature.

dendroman1 · « **Reply #64 on:** August 29, 2011, 22:36:04 »

Quote from: ohioreef on August 29, 2011, 19:54:06

Thanks for the info. Just toying around with ideas of what to put on the "dry" half.

No problem. If its just a 20H, I'm not sure what to recommend at the moment. It probably doesn't have much land to it does it? A newt or salamander might do well, though I don't know if the turtle would try to make a dinner of it. What kind of turtle is it?

ohioreef · « **Reply #65 on:** August 30, 2011, 00:53:28 »

It is a small painted turtle.

We haven't got the divider in yet, but I think it'll be about half the tank.

Boonjob · « **Reply #66 on:** August 30, 2011, 13:48:50 »

I'm just going to keep them seperate... I understand the importance of not mixing the species.. and I would like to eventually raise some/sell... lol I just would have really liked to make one really good display, I guess I will just make multiple good displays

dendroman1 · « **Reply #67 on:** August 30, 2011, 17:07:50 »

Quote from: ohioreef on August 30, 2011, 00:53:28

It is a small painted turtle.

We haven't got the divider in yet, but I think it'll be about half the tank.

Yeah, its a local animal, so I would just recommend a newt or salamander. They both are around water in habitat, so they should be fine in there.

2024 Ohio Reef Frag Swap

Author Topic: Poison Dart Frogs (Read 5454 times)