Author Topic: Algae Turf Scrubber (Read 8952 times)

METZCOOL · « **on:** February 16, 2010, 09:29:24 »

Awhile back there was some threads about these and I have been doing some research and will be building an elevated sump unit. Here is a good thread on these for anyone interested in these, in my research I have discovered that these work very well when set up and cleaned regularly, unlike a lot of things in this hobby where it works for one person but not the other. If anybody has used one of these please share your experience.
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic89570-4-1.aspx

Joel · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2010, 09:48:48 »

I built one around 1990 based on the writings of Dr. Walter Addey. I was limited on funds fab skills so much of it was rigged up but it still worked pretty good. With better lighting and better build skills It looked as if it had the potential to work really well. The type I built had a surge devise included with it that I had the most trouble with. The newer versions I have seen build didn't have this on some of them. May make it easier to build.

METZCOOL · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:01:02 »

Joel,
Sounds like the surge thing was a issue on these like you said and they touch on that in this FAQ link:

Q: I've heard you have to "pulse" or "surge" the water to get best results.
A: This is not proven yet. Most scrubbers use a constant flow, and have great results. Thus it is not recommended to use a surge device. Plus they are noisy, and are just too difficult to build.

Forgot to add FAQ list and answers:http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68

ohioreef · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:14:50 »

Looks interesting. Let us know how it works out for you. I could remove my refugium and make it a turf algae scrubber pretty easily.

Vinnbelle1 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:29:27 »

I use algae scrubbers here at the store. They are on a reverse light cycle from the rest of the tank. I can't post whether I notice a difference in using them or not, because I have used them from the get go. I basically suspended eggcrate from the PVC pipes, and then zip-tie plastic windows screening to them. When they get too overloaded, I just replace the screen. It is nice to have most of the hair algae grow in this location. I harvest it to feed the clean up crew guys in my clean up crew section.

ghurlag · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2010, 10:58:57 »

That sounds like a really solid plan

HUNGER · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2010, 14:56:10 »

good plan

Rayman · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2010, 16:06:20 »

very interesting, i can not stop reading about this, i may try it out myself.

Vinnbelle1 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2010, 16:19:34 »

You don't have to really get rid of your refugium. You could have the turf scrubber built over your refugium, and have the water drain off the turf scrubber, down into your refugium.

cyberwollf · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2010, 17:14:09 »

Its funny how things come and go in the hobby. I read ALOT about turf scrubbers about a year ago, when i first heard of them them. I wonder if 20 years in the future someone will re-discover this awesome "protien skimmer" thing.

ohioreef · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2010, 19:50:50 »

Quote from: Coral Pets on February 16, 2010, 16:19:34

You don't have to really get rid of your refugium. You could have the turf scrubber built over your refugium, and have the water drain off the turf scrubber, down into your refugium.

That's an interesting idea.

HUNGER · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2010, 21:34:41 »

Quote from: ohioreef on February 16, 2010, 19:50:50

That's an interesting idea.

+1

ohioreef · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2010, 21:47:00 »

Does it have to come from the overflow? My refuge is currently fed by my return pump. Just seems the flow would too much from the return.

METZCOOL · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2010, 22:06:57 »

Gary,
You can tee off of your return and put in a valve to adjust flow to the scrubber and the water doesn't need to come from the overflow for it to work.

HUNGER · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2010, 09:00:49 »

i never seen one up and running just heard about themn

ohioreef · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2010, 09:16:23 »

Quote from: METZCOOL on February 16, 2010, 22:06:57

Gary,
You can tee off of your return and put in a valve to adjust flow to the scrubber and the water doesn't need to come from the overflow for it to work.

Guess I need to start engineering!! I have a spraybar in my fuge, but I could tee off it to an algae scrubber. Put a valve before the scrubber to slow its flow.

Any thoughts on what size PVC I should use to get enough flow through the scrubber?

The other option would be to run the scrubber off a MJ.

METZCOOL · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2010, 15:23:14 »

1" PVC is used and the size screen is determined by GPH feed and tank size as follows, let me know how yours goes if you try it and I will do the same.

The only thing you need to decide is how big your screen needs to be, and if you want it to be in a bucket or your sump. The basic rule is one square inch of screen for each gallon of tank water. A 5 gallon bucket (like a salt bucket) can hold a screen about 12 X 12 inches = 144 square inches = 144 gal tank; a 2 gallon bucket can hold about 7 X 7 inches = 49 gal tank; a one gallon bucket about 6 X 6 = 36 gal tank. Turf filters get really small as you can see. A 12 gal nano tank needs just 3 X 4 inches in a tupperware container! This small thing replaces the skimmer, refugium, phosphate removers, nitrate removers, carbon, filtersocks, and possibly even waterchanges (if the purpose of the waterchanges is to reduce nitrate and phosphate.) If your tank is bigger than a 144, then just start with a 5 gallon bucket size and see how it goes. You can always add a second one, or build a bigger one later.

How to build the bucket version: First, choose your pump size (or just try what pump you have; it won't hurt). For my example, about 350 gallons per hour was needed. Here is a guide based on the width of the screen (it does not matter how tall the screen is)...

Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)

2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700

cyberwollf · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2010, 15:36:05 »

Have you read anything regarding the species of turf algae? When I read into awhile back people reccomended buying screens already grown with red turf or somethng. This is the best species and is not normally exisiting in home aquaria. Also if you don't do your weekly harvesting the overgrown algea will die off and release everything back into the tank, possibly crashing. So there is still significant maintenace with the ATS.

cyberwollf · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2010, 15:38:50 »

I also have a piece of 1/2" PVC with a perfect slot already cut in it and some screen (aquarium divider) all ready to go, just never ended up installing it. I'll sell it cheap if anyone really wants to give it a try

METZCOOL · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2010, 15:54:34 »

cyber,
I read that there was a company that was building these for awhile and was also trying to sell algae with them also at an additional cost because it was to be a better algae, I will let you figure that one out.

I did run across these two:

Q: What type of algae is best to grow?
A: You don't have much choice; algae will grow based on lighting, flow and nutrients, and will even change as your nitrates and phosphates drop. All algae consume nitrate and phosphate, so it really doesn't matter what type algae it is. What matters is how MUCH grows.

Q: How often do you clean it?
A: Once a week (7 days), no matter what. This is probably the biggest hassle with scrubbers, and when it is not followed, it's THE biggest reason why a scrubber is not working as good as it should. When the algae gets too thick on the screen, it blocks the light from getting to the bottom layers. Thus the bottom layers die, and they put nitrate and phosphate and cloudiness into the water. Weekly cleaning eliminates this. If your screen is smaller than it should be, or if your nutrients are very high in your tank, your screen might fill up and need cleaning in just a few days. This is ESPECIALLY true if the screen is growing dark, oil-like algae. This type of algae will never get thick because it blocks out all the light, so it must be cleaned as soon as it grows. After the nutrients in your water come down, the dark algae will grow less, and the green algae will grow more (dark algae is caused by very high nutrients.)

cyberwollf · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2010, 15:58:46 »

That makes sense on the algae species

~reefchik~ · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2010, 17:25:38 »

When I was cleaning my sump/refugium last week, I was thinking that with the overflow sheeting into the clean part of the sump where my pump and skimmer are, I almost had a turf scrubber starting.

I wonder if I attached some of that plastic grid if I could get sort of the same effect. I was fascinated with the concept and read long threads about it last year all over the Net by SantaMonica.

UDJustin · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2010, 20:33:06 »

I think your really overstating what an algea scrubber will do for your tank... to say it will replace a skimmer and water changes is just crazy. I have no doubt that it benifits the tank greatly but it does not replace the need for a skimmer nor does it replace what water changes do. I just noticed you added the excerpt on the water changes if you were doing them to replace nitrate and phosphate removal.

cyberwollf · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2010, 20:40:53 »

I think it's cheap, less maintnece, and no chance of crashing your tank so I run a skimmer. I have always wanted a small one just becuase I love differnt forms of biodiveristy

METZCOOL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2010, 20:51:33 »

Not my statement but from the link provided in first post, as with anything in this hobby different strokes for different folks and if the end result is the same then we and the hobby are all better in the end.
I have seen many TOTM on Reef Central that are skimmerless and some others that have stated minimal water changes.
I will choose to continue running my skimmer and supplement with this.

METZCOOL · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2010, 19:10:05 »

Here is the best link i have found about algae scrubbers:
http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=78477f0c1a1bebd38f57c382d151df7f

ohioreef · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2010, 19:23:40 »

Wow so many different designs!!

ohioreef · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2010, 21:56:22 »

Found this one on the website you listed above. I could add one like this to my sump very easily.

~reefchik~ · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2010, 13:30:50 »

Quote from: ohioreef on February 18, 2010, 21:56:22

Found this one on the website you listed above. I could add one like this to my sump very easily.

Yep, me too. Very seriously considering it.

ohioreef · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2010, 14:40:20 »

Quote from: ~reefchik~ on February 19, 2010, 13:30:50

Yep, me too. Very seriously considering it.

Im gonna do it as soon as I find some plastic screen. I will also need to add a couple small ledges on the acrylic wall to rest the top of the screen on. Might have to shut the fuge down for a day or so to let the glue dry.

rayk · « **Reply #30 on:** May 12, 2010, 19:28:01 »

Just found this thread, and I did this last nite. Took about 20 minutes to adjust my sump. Bought the plastic screen at Michael's craft in Beavercreek, back the the latch hook section, 59 cents each. Roughed them up with a small saw blade. Extended my current sump return to be a little higher, and attached a 1" diameter pipe with a slit in it. Attached the roughed up screens with zip ties. But, I have a few problems. 1), the lights scare me. They used to be above my refugium pointing down into the water, which is bad enough I guess, but now the water coming in is actually higher than the light. 2) I can't get light on both sides until I move my refugium for the new tank. 3) the lights aren't quite strong enough, although I'm not trying to go skimmerless, so I'm not sure the 1 watt per gallon rule really applys. 4) I can't get enough flow until I re-plumb for the new tank. The refugium is above tank and gravity feeds into the main, however if it flows to fast it splashes and gets bubbles. On the 180 build, the refugium will syphon into the main tank, so flow problem solved there.

I've been meaning to try this for a while, after getting my new protein skimmer (MDX250A), I can see why some folks say it pulls EVERYTHING out of the water, including the good stuff. The thing is a beast. Anyways, pics....

Before:

After:

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #31 on:** April 17, 2011, 12:46:46 »

Just wanted to add my build to this. Its 1" PVC powered on both sides by 2 100w (cfl) (4 bulbs total). In the images, it shows door screen, i have since then changed that out (though it was doing well) to the craft plastic (the stuff people crochea with). The new screen has been running for a month or two now and i'm starting to get the long strand algae. I'll take some pics later tonight and post them.

this image i was testing out the 6500k PC lights. DId ok, grew more red algae than anything and started a red algae bloom in my tank after a month..... So i changed it out with the warm white 2700k 100w CFL's

The 100w bulbs i placed 4" away, they started to create yellow algae on the screen so i had to back them off about 1-2" because it was actually just "burning" the algae. Backing them up a little actually helped the long stranded algae to take off.

The tube has the slit for the water to come out. The screen is held in the tube by zip ties (so the zipties form a small O and that slides inside the tube. The Tube slit goes all the way to the end to be able to slide the Screen in and an end cap is pust pushed on. Makes it easy to disassemble and clean. On the left of the Tube, it has a coupler on it, it as well is just pushed on in case i need to remove the whole tube, which i usually do to clean all of it.

Boonjob · « **Reply #32 on:** April 25, 2011, 19:48:11 »

This is really interesting! I recently just built my sump which had a chamber for cheato(big enough to make it tumble) that is fed off my return pump but I wonder if I should go this route instead or perhaps run them both with the return powering the algae scrubber which is suspended above the cheato section and feeds it...? My biggest worry would be the gph, my setup would need about 350gph I personally think that's alot of water turning around in such a small area(the cheato chamber is roughly 8 gals; 12x12x13 in the sump)... My whole sump set up is only running at a total of 500gph which is turning my tank about 10 times an hour...

But whatever gets my trates down.

DarinSchmidt · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2011, 22:29:46 »

i have both, and they seem to do fine. if you need 350gph and you are currently doing it at 500, whats the issue? Also you dont need to have it wide, you can have it taller which will require less gph IF you have the space.

Boonjob · « **Reply #34 on:** April 26, 2011, 00:37:12 »

Yeah I will probably do both with the scrubber running off into the cheato chamber(my only worry here was if one would starve out the other for nutrients)... my worry about the 350gph is that even though my sump is running at 500gph, this area is separate and fed by the return line and I'm not sure if I can get the mag 7 to push 350 at the scrubber and still achieve 500gph at the top of the display.

I will just tinker around with it... hopefully I can post some pics once I get everything squared away.

2024 Ohio Reef Frag Swap

Author Topic: Algae Turf Scrubber (Read 8952 times)