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Offline Cole Harlow

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Diy led questions
« on: April 25, 2011, 19:06:31 »
If i had a twoft wide tank and put a 9 inch wide heatsink on it with 36 leds right in the middle would the leds be abl to cover the 6 inch space on each side of the heatsink
90 gallon shallow

Offline Learning_The_Hard_Way

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 19:44:44 »
Depends on how high you have it mounted above the tanka nd the angle of lens you put on the LED.

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 08:51:07 »
funny that you should ask that. I have a 27" wide tank with 8.5" wide heatsing. properly spaced out LEDs and they seem to do really well with lighting the surrounding area. My tank is also 24" deep and my lights sit above the water about 3-4" and have 80 degree optics on it. I would recommend raising it a little higher though, maybe 6-10 so there is even better spread.

Offline Cole Harlow

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 18:36:13 »
How big is your tank and how many leds do you have on it total. What kind af corals are you keeping under it
90 gallon shallow

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 18:46:20 »
My tank is about 300gal. 128 leds. I have sorties, Lps, and sps

Offline Cole Harlow

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 07:31:20 »
do leds have the same wattage no matter what percent there at
90 gallon shallow

Offline Wall_Tank

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 09:19:47 »
No.

Watts = Voltage x Current

So an LED that uses 3.3volts at 1amp   at maximum power would use 3.3 watts

When you dim an LED, the current drops, the voltage for the most part stays the same

So an LED at 50% power would be

3.3 volts x 0.5 amps = 1.6 watts.

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 10:24:18 »
Correct wall. But in a system like the one I made, you drop the voltage of the led to dim it because the voltage is directly related to how many mA it will consume.

Offline kattz

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 11:02:45 »
If you're using a Meanwell ELN-series driver, the LED brightness is controlled by output current, not voltage.  External voltage is referenced to drive the unit current output, not voltage output.

Kev
90g SPS and LPS reef tank, 35g sump, ceramic rock by The Alternative Reef, Neptune Apex w 2 X EB8's, Moonlight module, ATI Sunpower Dimmable 8 X 39W T5's, Octopus Extreme 160 skimmer, PM Kalkwasser Reactor, 2 X Vortech MP40's, Geo 618 Ca reactor


Various thriving montipora, acropora, stylopora, wellsophyllia, blastomussa, hammer, anchor, and frogspawn, lobophyllia, rhizotrychus, pavona, scroll, and pagoda SPS and LPS corals, but no fish because I was too stupid to QT...

Offline Wall_Tank

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 11:16:34 »
Correct wall. But in a system like the one I made, you drop the voltage of the led to dim it because the voltage is directly related to how many mA it will consume.

LED's are not a resistive load.  Voltage and Current are not related like a light bulb.   Very slight changes in voltage can produce drastic changes in current draw.   Forward voltage also changes as a function of heat.

You are using a voltage regulated power supply, with a resistor in the line to limit the maximum current draw.   It will work, but is not the preferred way to power LED's.   And if you want to do dark to full dimming, you'll need current control.

Current regulated power supplies is the preferred method of driving LED's





Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 12:29:22 »
If you look at an LED data sheet, it specifically shows that if you apply a certain voltage, it will draw a certain amount of mA. Using a voltage adjustable power supply works just as well as the expensive constant current drivers. The only difference is that with an adjustable voltage power supply, the can vary +-5% depending on the hardware used. Mine varies about 2%. The Voltage and Amps is directly related to how many lumens are pumped out.

Offline Wall_Tank

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 13:31:14 »
Okay, so some good debate between two non-electrical engineers.   Will see when Wes decides to chime in.   But here is the curve from the Cree XR-E



Your talking in theory, I'm talking in practical control.   Anyone who deals with system dynamics, knows that you want to operate on any flat portion of a response curve.   If your system is operating above 3 volts.  You are going to see much more current swings.   Unless your operating against your current limiting resistors in your system.   Light output is a function of current not voltage.    So if you want consistent light output, then you need to control current.


Offline Cole Harlow

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 15:44:11 »
Just wondering but what percant do most of you run your leds at
Thanks for the help
90 gallon shallow

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 15:54:56 »
Okay, so some good debate between two non-electrical engineers.   Will see when Wes decides to chime in.   But here is the curve from the Cree XR-E

Your talking in theory, I'm talking in practical control.   Anyone who deals with system dynamics, knows that you want to operate on any flat portion of a response curve.   If your system is operating above 3 volts.  You are going to see much more current swings.   Unless your operating against your current limiting resistors in your system.   Light output is a function of current not voltage.    So if you want consistent light output, then you need to control current.

Well then explain how my system works if it's "theory". You cannot fully dim the LEDs with the way i do it as there wouldnt be enough for the LED to actually function if trying to dim them to dark. But like i was saying with my system, i dont dim my lights. It turns on at 750mA and remains that all day. If i want to bing them down to 350mA or bring them up to 1000mA i can just increase it's voltage. Using a constant current system like a meanwell will allow you to dim them all the way down to dark by controlling the current that goes through them. But if this isnt the option you are trying to achieve (like in mine) then this doesnt matter.

But comparing a CC unit to just a PSU with a fuse unit is in a way comparing apples to oranges. I chose the PSU way because for 128 LEDs, i saved a lot of money by not buying a CC device to run every 8 LEDs.

But also like you see in the diagram, increasing the voltage of the LED above its operational voltage does increase its current. But you must stay within 3-3.7vf for it to operate properly.
meanwell $29

from what i read, people run only 12 LEDs off these.

48v psu $48

I could run 105 off of one PSU and still have enough power for fans. BUT you should only run a PSU under 90% of its potential. So i use 2 PSU's instead of 11 meanwells. $96 vs $319.

If i was to do dimming to dark i can add a PWM which can take care of that.

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 15:58:27 »
mine are running at 700mA if thats what you are asking.

Offline Wall_Tank

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2011, 17:08:58 »
We can agree to disagree on this.   All I'm saying is that you have more control with a CC power supply.   Dimming to near dark is actually one of the best affects that we get with LED technology.

If your doing just normal on/off control, there are much cheaper Meanwell CC power supplies   LPC-35-700 is only $18.   

Offline cyberwollf

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2011, 19:48:58 »
Im a little confused.. Darin, are you running a resistor inline or just relying on hitting the voltage correctly with no resistor???
75G Mixed Reef w/ 30G sump/refuge

Electrical Engineers do it on impulse, with faster rise times, with more power, and less resistance at higher frequencies, without shorts, until it Hertz


Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2011, 20:30:52 »
There is no need for a resistor since it has a built in POT. If the voltage gets out of hand by some freak incident the fuse will blow. So if it hits 1A then it blows. Which by having it running at 700mA, it would have to increase about 5V on my system to have it achieve such current.

Even at $18 pet controller, that's 200 bucks vs 96 for the same function. Having LEDs and being able to control them is one part of why they are a much better alternative. But using a psu system doesn't prevent you from having control. You just have to make a own for it. A meanwell is a complete package but for about 2-3x the price.

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2011, 20:32:12 »
Have to make a pwm for it*

Offline cyberwollf

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2011, 20:43:00 »
So by POT, you mean YES it has a resistor ;)  With constant voltage from your PSU and the POT set at a constant resistance, you have constant current.  Unless you have some forward bias changes with temp. 

Sounds like a fine setup to me.  Just make sure your fuse is a fast blow fuse.
75G Mixed Reef w/ 30G sump/refuge

Electrical Engineers do it on impulse, with faster rise times, with more power, and less resistance at higher frequencies, without shorts, until it Hertz


Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2011, 20:46:06 »
Yeah. Its a fast blow. And I was just saying that I didn't install one inline since one was built is so technically yes there is one lol.

Offline Cole Harlow

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2011, 10:52:19 »
Is it ok to have cree xp-e and cree xp-g r5 leds two inches apart id have 72 leds on 34 inch by 8.5 inch heatseink with three 120 mm by 25 mm fans
90 gallon shallow

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2011, 14:02:11 »
Yeah. 2" from what I have seen seems to be the standard. I have seen some at 3". The spread of the leds aslso depends on the type of optics you use and the depth of the tank. If you aren't going with optics an have a standard depth tank you might be able to get away with 3" and use less leds to save some money.

Offline Cole Harlow

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2011, 07:49:51 »
So im going to have two heatsinks and im trying to decide if i should do 48 per heatsink or 72 per heatsink the leds willmbe xp crees
90 gallon shallow

Offline DarinSchmidt

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Re: Diy led questions
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2011, 09:10:24 »
what size tank do you have?

 

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