NEED LEDs

[liljake]

Hey im looking to buy leds.eather strips or squares.i have a 90 gal so i think its 48" not sure though.if you have some for sale give me a price and we can go from there.thanks-jake

[coral ranch]

We sell Ecoray 60D's for 296.00, 4+ at 269.00. They have 30 blue and 30 white in each fixture. two seperat cords. We also carry their 38par's for 115.00

[DarinSchmidt]

We sell Ecoray 60D's for 296.00, 4+ at 269.00. They have 30 blue and 30 white in each fixture. two seperat cords. We also carry their 38par's for 115.00

What kind of LEDs are they? 1 watt LEDs? Those PAR LEDs are overly expensive.

[DarinSchmidt]

Hey im looking to buy leds.eather strips or squares.i have a 90 gal so i think its 48" not sure though.if you have some for sale give me a price and we can go from there.thanks-jake

Are you doing a Fish Only or are you going ot have corals in it?

[liljake]

corals

[liljake]

and coral ranch,would one of those ecoray 60d do the trick for a 90 gal that i want to keep corals in?or would i need two

[DarinSchmidt]

those $250 Eco LEDs i wouldnt use those. a 90g is taller than a 55g. Those units he is selling are those cheap china LEDs i'm assuming. You can build one for corals with CREE leds. You could, or if you want i can, build you one. Prob wouldnt cost more than 5-600 IF you want to do it right. I wouldnt trust my corals to those cheap LED models though. SOme corals do ok under them, others dont, and with a depth of 24", unless you plan on putting them close to the water surface, i wondnt use them.

[DarinSchmidt]

should add that I'm using CREE LEDs and my water is 24" high. at the floor surface i get 160 PAR without optics (going to do a PAR test tonight with optics). Theres no way those others would compare. I think the ones that Coral is refering to are good for nano cubes and shallow bed tanks, personally.

[kattz]

There are reefers in this club using the fixtures from Coral Ranch and having good luck with SPS growth in tall tanks.

[kattz]

If you're going to use Cree's and build a fixture for a 90g, plan on $750 for the LED's, optics, and drivers.  You can go "lite" and use 48 instead of 72 of the 3W units, but I think you'll be disappointed with the results for acros over time.  I have 70 3W Cree's with optics on my DIY fixture, and my corals are doing great!  Also, my LED's are 15" from the optics to the water surface.  PAR at max output on the sandbed is around 260 average.

[Wall_Tank]

Jake is not a DIY'er.   We had exchanged PM's on Halide fixtures and shy'ed away from a pendant and external ballast.

1st rule of LED's you get what you pay for, and I would not buy anything used.   

On a 90 gallon tank, with a standard center brace, you will need two fixtures.    You don't want the lights over the center brace, or you will get a nasty shadow.

[liljake]

so coral ranches ecoray 60d's would work or would not work ?lol so many opinions

[DarinSchmidt]

Like i said Katz, it works for some, but you have to factor in the depth of his water and where the corals will be placed. If you cant get at least 200 par at the sandbed, i wouldnt even bother with them. I will have 128 CREE's over my 300g, i currently have a test model i built containing only 28 LEDs over 1/4th my tank with optics hanging 6-10" above water. I still have to do a PAR reading on what they are getting at the bottom but they never been happier, neither have I.

I'm not saying that the Coral LED's wouldnt work, but i would def want a PAR reading at 24" from them first. My 28 LED system only cost me close to 400. I think i'll go get a reading right now while i'm thinking about it.

[liljake]

so how much would you build me a system for?

[DarinSchmidt]

i'm getting 360 PAR. How much would i build a system for, i would have to get the price of everything first. But rough estimate would be 650, at most 700. Thats with $50 for labor.

[kattz]

The Ecorays are doing OK, check with Chromiumlux for some more info. They are also dimmable, whereas the fixture units from Coral Ranch (1W X 60) are not.

Darin, you can see my PAR readings on my DIY thread - BTW, you left my build out of your DIY thread...  I was smoking corals on the bottom of my tank at 260 PAR and at 360 PAR about 4" off of the sand.  Right now I have fab growth at 50% power on the whites and 60%  on the blues (210 PAR on the sand) running a photoperiod of 12 hours.  70 degree optics.

Jake, if Darin can build you a Cree 3W-based fixture, you'll probably be pretty happy with it.  Just go with dimmable drivers - you will have more control.

I haven't seen Darin's setup; I'm sure it's fine.  Talk to everyone for the most info you can get.  jjoos, wall_tank, chromiumlux, and others here using LED's.  Put together the pros and cons and make an educated decision.

[UDJustin]

Has anyone asked the better question what kind of corals he plans on keeping? I think that would be the best factor to go by for deciding on lighting.

[kattz]

Nope.  Jake?

He could grow LPS or softies/leathers in dim light or NPS in the dark..

[DarinSchmidt]

UD, i dont really think that would be a good question because no one has really any info on what every certain coral requires as far as PAR. Every website i have ever seen just says high-med-low lighting.... But through my research with my unit i have found that the corals seem (that i have) to be happy when levels are over 250. So I still feel that the best question would be, will the other china fixture get you close to 250 at 24" deep??

[DarinSchmidt]

hooked my Kill-A-Watt to my unit and it uses 105 watts total from the outlet. If i were to hook a PWM to it, which im planning on, i bet i could get that down to around 60.

[HUNGER]

my corals grow great under 150 par but i dont use leds i run m/h my highest par is 200 220 at the top and 70 to 100 at bottom  i have softys lps and sps doing great

[DarinSchmidt]

what kind of MH is it? 150-250w? My corals did ok with 150 PAR, but that was with LEDs. MH gives a more full spectrum of light so the differnces in light could effect how well corals do under certain PAR.

[DarinSchmidt]

Jake, ultimately, it comes down to your budget and what you want to grow. Also quality of course is a factor. The ones i build do have a voltage adjustor on them so you can control the intensity of light. The ones Coral sells do well for some, but on RC i hear nothing but how disappointed they are and the short lifespan some have had. The unit i build uses easily accessible replacement parts, the psu i believe has a two year warrently.

But if you look at Orphek lighting. You can tell that the quality is there. Granted, they are about 900 for a section that i build for 400 (which is basically the same design). But their design is for deep deep water, around 48+ inches if i remember correctly, and they use proprietary LEDs.

[UDJustin]

UD, i dont really think that would be a good question because no one has really any info on what every certain coral requires as far as PAR. Every website i have ever seen just says high-med-low lighting.... But through my research with my unit i have found that the corals seem (that i have) to be happy when levels are over 250. So I still feel that the best question would be, will the other china fixture get you close to 250 at 24" deep??

Don't want to make you feel dumb but I can tell you that you can grow softies under pc's easily but SPS your gonna have a hard time with so yes asking what kind of corals he is wanting to keep should have been the first question

[DarinSchmidt]

i was just stating that no one can tell you a specific par for each tye of coral. Everyone just says, well i use PC, or MH, or Plasma, or whatever. Thats all that i was saying. But so far the average best that i have found out to be able to stumilate some really good growth has been around 250 PAR.

DOnt worry, you didnt make me feel dumb, just difference in optinion on whats more important. Light quality for future proofing or types of coral you want as of right now. I'm just thinking long term, thats all.

[DarinSchmidt]

I'll just give you a breefing of why i think this way.

10 years ago when i started in the saltwater area, i was only interested in fish. So i bought some T5 lights, kept things well lit, etc, etc. I had no interest in corals because of the price (but i didnt make as much then as i do now). So i broke down as i began to be more interested in them, seeing the cool colors, dreaming of ..... nm that part lol, anyways. So i bought the PC lights, not a cheap buy, but saved me energy compared to MH, though replacing the bulb every 4 months began to irritate me. With the depth of my tank, i have had some corals die on me (maybe 3) within a week because they didnt get enough light. At the time, i didnt know. But the depth of my tank destroyed the PAR level. So i started sticking them higher in the tank. But even then, i could tell (though my water parameters were pristine) that they just werent "growing" well. Now that i have had these CREE LEDs, i have never seen such growth.

In a 55g, which is 18" deep, PC's and such would be fine, i should have been using MH because my tank is 24" deep.

But like i will say again, I think that having a PAR level of close to 250 is better than knowing what corals you want now and short changing yourself in the long run and having to fork out more money (or doing without) for some better lights.

[coral ranch]

Darin I have seen as many good post on the ecorays as bad as with almost every product put out. I can't tell you the par at 24" but I have used them first hand and am very pleased. I have more than a few customers who are exrtemely satisfied. One has them 14" above his 120gal and keeps very nice sps on the bottom another has a single fixture above a corner 49gal. and also has wonderful sps on the bottom.
 As far as what lights he really needs I think does depend on what he wants to keep or if he feels he may want other corals that require higher light in the future. If some one walked in and told me they were only interested in softies or lps wich occures more than you think I would not necesarily have them fork out the money for led's. At that point it would be more of a luxury than a necesity.

[DarinSchmidt]

I agree.

[HUNGER]

i have 2 175 M/H and 1 250 M/H only because the 250 hase to go threw a 1/2 piece of glass and the lights are 13 inchs above watter with leds lets see how they do in 5 years if they last that long  on a tank as you can tell im not into leds yet alot of people jump on the band wagons with things like power compacts than over driving t5s ya they work but not for long

[DarinSchmidt]

do a search online. CREE vs 5mm LED, or even the 10mm LEDs. They dont lost a long time. CREE as far as I'm aware, which has been proven by their older models, last a long time, longer than 5mm or even 10mm.

The LED unit that i build is comparable to the Orphek LEDs that some of you may have heard about. They sell one unit for 900, i sell mine for (when people want me to) 500, depending on what they want. But they pack in 60 LEDs and i do 28. Theirs is designed for deep tanks, 48", mine are for 36" but are adjustable depending on the depth of the tank.

The 5mm LEDs, to me, are for those who want to save money without spending a lot, but that has it's drawbacks. I would warrant mine labor free for 5 years and the PSU for 2. In a retail store, i bet these would sell for 7-800 each.

The power savings of LEDs over 5 years pays for itself compared to MH. No bulb replacements, 50%+ less power consumption, less heat so no need for chillers, but to each their own ya know. Weather you go with 5mm, CREE, MH, PC, etc, its all choice on what you want/plan on doing/need for your tank. I went with CREE because for a couple extra hundred, i have a very versatile setup that i can do whatever, and if future proofing is considered a luxury, thats what i would rather have. Upgrading isnt cheap, esp if you consider how much you lost on selling your used equipment.

Look all over the net, there are tons of articles. LEDs dont provide the broad spectrum that MH or PC's do but they do supply what is needed.

Check out RC, they have a TON of info on it. There are many factors to consider when buying lights, dont short yourself or you will pay for it in the long run.

[liljake]

i got them guys,thanks

[HUNGER]

but my par on my m/h at 3 year old bulbs were 200 at top and 100 at bottom and to repalce 3 mh i would have to spend over $1200  as compared to $350 in all my light and $120 in bulbs every 3 years  and i dont run a chiller  and dont have to run a heaters  i have looked up how much electric i would save if i have leds i would be  saveing 5 bucks a month thats it because i would have to have heaters the leds would have to last and have the same par for 11 years for it to pay for its self

[liljake]

i got two ecoray 60 w leds .seem to be working excellent so far

[DarinSchmidt]

you dont have heaters? your not worried about heating and cooling fluctuation? bold move.

Let me know how well they work in a few months Jake, i am interested. I have heard so many mixed reviews it made me stay away from them.

[kattz]

Hi, Jake:

what did you buy; I'm curious.  would also like to know how they work out - keep us posted.

[liljake]

they look great ,my tangs starting to come out and everything and my keyna trees starting to open up already

[DarinSchmidt]

Could you post a pic?

[HUNGER]

you dont have heaters? your not worried about heating and cooling fluctuation? bold move.

[/quote
i have a fan over the sump it kicks on when over 82 i do have a heater it kicks on at 79 but the tank stays at 80.8 to 81.2

[DarinSchmidt]

Yeah but what about night. The temp drop, ESP in the winter

[HUNGER]

at night its at 80.8 with everything on in the day 81.2

[DarinSchmidt]

I would have suspected I higher drop in temp through the night. I know my tank at night without heaters have hit as low as 76 that I know of.

[liljake]

i have heaters my tanks at 80

[DarinSchmidt]

As do I. I have never heard of anyone up north not needeng them to maintain their heat because we get cold weather. Unless he keeps his home heat set to 80 lol

[HUNGER]

from day one when i set up my tank it has allways been 80 and up when i redid my hood and added a fan it keep my tank at 80 to 82

[DarinSchmidt]

Yeah but how does it stay 80 at night without your lights on?

[HUNGER]

i have know clue

[DarinSchmidt]

Have you checked the temp in the morning before the lights turn back on?

[HUNGER]

ya 80.1 to 80.2

[DarinSchmidt]

Interesting.  I wonder how it maintains its heat with no heat source for 10hrs roughly.

[HUNGER]

im guesing throw the pumps and power heads