Author Topic: DIY LEDs - anybody using or want to use? (Read 6899 times)

rayk · « **Reply #25 on:** July 12, 2009, 19:55:00 »

Would have been nice to have this industry open up, but not sure anybody can beat that defense contractor that has the generic patent (Orbit I think it is). They have tons of cash to throw at the patent defense, and PFO already couldn't fight them off. Apparently, anybody who hangs an LED over an aquarium 'may' be in infringement of their patent.

Anyways, if the industry could open up a bit, I'm sure we'd see some comparison tests, long term affects, etc. Who knows when/if that will happen.

So for now, the up front cost seems to be out of line for the energy savings, so my main argument to my wife is gone. End of discussion for me... lol Perhaps a frag tank experiment is in order sometime after ....

- Rayk

Blown76mav · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12, 2009, 20:18:52 »

Sorry but you can only infringe on a patent if your selling them, building something for your own personal use is ok. Trust me, I've been down this road with Ford and a licensed product. I was able to make it, never sold it they couldn't stop me. Sorry to burst your bubble.

TechGuy · « **Reply #27 on:** July 12, 2009, 20:26:45 »

Quote from: rayk on July 12, 2009, 19:55:00

Perhaps a frag tank experiment is in order sometime after ....

- Rayk

Yes, and I am working on that...

Very cool Tech...

slandis3 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 12, 2009, 20:47:43 »

I have some ebay blue 5mm leds i got a few years back. I had a few go out so i replaced them. WOW the difference between the new and the old was amazing. The new were twice as bright. I will try and find some old ones and wire up a new one to show the difference. Thats what i would be worried about. I understand leds are supposed to last for a long time but have seen they will lose brightness over time just like a halide or vho/pc bulb. I would rather unscrew/unplug a bulb rather than have to take down the fixture and unsoldier and re-soldier a bunch of leds.

TechGuy · « **Reply #29 on:** July 12, 2009, 23:16:48 »

Quote from: slandis3 on July 12, 2009, 20:47:43

I have some ebay blue 5mm leds i got a few years back. I had a few go out so i replaced them. WOW the difference between the new and the old was amazing. The new were twice as bright. I will try and find some old ones and wire up a new one to show the difference. Thats what i would be worried about. I understand leds are supposed to last for a long time but have seen they will lose brightness over time just like a halide or vho/pc bulb. I would rather unscrew/unplug a bulb rather than have to take down the fixture and unsoldier and re-soldier a bunch of leds.

The issue with this technology...

jd · « **Reply #30 on:** July 14, 2009, 16:22:00 »

Just found this sweet little tank with a DIY LED light.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1658978&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

TechGuy · « **Reply #31 on:** July 14, 2009, 16:42:36 »

Thats just awesome.

jd · « **Reply #32 on:** July 14, 2009, 16:51:32 »

Quote from: TechGuy40 on July 14, 2009, 16:42:36

Thats just awesome.

Isn't it? I love the skimmer he made. That light looks just awesome. Can you imagine... ~$150 and you never have to buy bulbs again. Plus how little it cost to run it!

jd · « **Reply #33 on:** July 15, 2009, 13:41:17 »

Here's a write up on 5mm vs Cree stars. Makes some interesting points.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=189361

Blown76mav · « **Reply #34 on:** July 15, 2009, 17:13:47 »

The cheap ones look better to me, as far as the heat sink I don't think its all that critical. I mean look at my 250w MH's them suckers will burn you in an instant (see spot 2months old on my arm) I don't care how many LED's you put together they are not going to burn you like that. And I'm not sure how the life of the 5mm can be less than the Cree's, they use less power/LED, look how many he had wired to come up with the same 3.7v compared to ONE Cree.

Logzor · « **Reply #35 on:** July 15, 2009, 20:21:44 »

There is no PAR rating from what I read, which is disappointing.

One of the points for the comparison is that you want more power from one point for better light penetration. This is why the cree is superior. As far as bulbs burning you...this has nothing to do with the light output. An old 100w incandescent bulb will burn my fingers but I can hold onto a 23w CFL yet the CFL puts out just as much if not more light.

A Cincyreef member has built a small array for their nano-cube (Beastie - check the DIY thread). He is getting 700+ par in the top of the water and 200 near the bottom which is just as good as a MH. I saw it in person and it is super bright and they can be dimmed. His setup is basically producing lighting similar to a 150w MH while only it uses 36w.

FWIW when I saw this tank in person Brad switched on only the royal blue LEDs and it was the most amazing actinic look I have ever seen.

I am pretty sure the hint sinks on the cree chips are a must or else it will melt down. Cree is pretty much on the top of LED technology - which is why their chips last longer than those old 5mms.

Here is a link to the build: http://www.cincyreef.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13662

jd · « **Reply #36 on:** July 15, 2009, 21:12:57 »

I would have loved a PAR reading as well.

Blown: The heat sink is required. Not as big as he had but they are needed. They get very hot, they may run without the heatsink but it will kill the LED sooner. Well cooler = longer life. 5mm don't last as long because they aren't meant to. The Cree's cost more because they have a better wafer in them.

cyberwollf · « **Reply #37 on:** July 15, 2009, 21:57:35 »

Big difference in a burning filament in the MH and the silicon junction in a semiconductor. Just a few seconds of over tempature in the P-N junction and you have a big loss in total life, not to mention shift in spectrum. Pretty interesting when you get into the semiconductor physics, the gap in the P-N junction is spaced (Fermi-Gap) so that the wavelength of the released photon is what you want, be it IR or daylight.

Enough geeking for now

TechGuy · « **Reply #38 on:** July 15, 2009, 22:12:01 »

Quote from: cyberwollf on July 15, 2009, 21:57:35

Big difference in a burning filament in the MH and the silicon junction in a semiconductor. Just a few seconds of over tempature in the P-N junction and you have a big loss in total life, not to mention shift in spectrum. Pretty interesting when you get into the semiconductor physics, the gap in the P-N junction is spaced (Fermi-Gap) so that the wavelength of the released photon is what you want, be it IR or daylight.

Enough geeking for now

No, not enough geek sir.

This is why this technology is not ready for the masses.

Blown76mav · « **Reply #39 on:** July 15, 2009, 23:32:02 »

For some odd reason you guys think this is new tech? We've been doing this in the auto industry for years. I guess I'll take what knowledge I have about this and keep it to myself.

Have fun spending a lot of money for an overpriced gadget.

harleyrider · « **Reply #40 on:** July 16, 2009, 00:05:52 »

I hear ya Blown, ive run them on my harley for 3 yrs now, and the last house i built, i put over 700 leds for over head lighting above and behind cove molding for mood lighting in all four bed rooms, and in the basement and bar , in the 4 years i lived there i never had one burn out, and as far as heat goes if they got hot i wouldnt have built them in, never even got luck warm!!! although i did lose one, one time on my bike but it was from vibration, not heat or age..that is exactly why your Semi truck went to them shoot 10 years ago i remember changin mine over at the time, they dont burn out and you dont keep getting pulled over by the state patrol for burnt out lights, and as forest says, thats all i have to say about that!

Logzor · « **Reply #41 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:09:22 »

Check out the build in the link I posted a few back. An array of 12 3w cree chips can be put together for around $220. The par is insane and they will last around 13 years. Considering what you save on lamps and electricity you can not beat it. I still think it needs a bit of time before they become the obvious choice, though. There is already another chip out that is even more powerful than the 3w cree. I am pretty excited. If I can pick a few peoples brains I want to put one together for a small frag tank.

TechGuy · « **Reply #42 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:33:18 »

Quote from: Blown76mav on July 15, 2009, 23:32:02

For some odd reason you guys think this is new tech? We've been doing this in the auto industry for years. I guess I'll take what knowledge I have about this and keep it to myself.

Have fun spending a lot of money for an overpriced gadget.

No its not. Its just not for the masses. When people start losing LED's whos going to replace them? Its just not as simple as buying a new T5 bulb.

slandis3 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:36:07 »

We all agree about the 5mm lights lasting for ever and not getting hot like the cree's do. The problem is the 5mm led's lose intensity much quicker than the cree. If you were to build a new light for your harley and compare it to your old one, the new one would be brighter.So to keep the par up you would need to change them evey year like regular bulbs. Now this is still cheaper than regular bulbs but a pain in the butt if i had about a 1000 leds over my 250 and had to change them out every year to keep my par #'s up

Logzor · « **Reply #44 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:47:12 »

"The Cree life rating assumes an average of 70% lumens maintenance after 50,000 hrs for a junction temperature of 80C"

You could run these for over 11 years @ 12 hours a day without losing PAR from what I understand. Even after that you still have 70% output. Why would you have to change them out every year light regular bulbs?

Even the older commercial aquarium led systems claim this lifespan and consistient output (aquaillumination, etc).

TechGuy · « **Reply #45 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:03:53 »

This is what I wanted to know. The lifespan, and how much is lost over time. You guys are going to make me buy a Pico tank and build one lol.

slandis3 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:05:45 »

Quote from: Logzor on July 16, 2009, 10:47:12

"The Cree life rating assumes an average of 70% lumens maintenance after 50,000 hrs for a junction temperature of 80C"

You could run these for over 11 years @ 12 hours a day without losing PAR from what I understand. Even after that you still have 70% output. Why would you have to change them out every year light regular bulbs?

Even the older commercial aquarium led systems claim this lifespan and consistient output (aquaillumination, etc).

I am talking about the cheaper 5mm leds.
"The problem is the 5mm led's lose intensity much quicker than the cree."

Logzor · « **Reply #47 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:10:48 »

Opps, I missed that! Yeah those 5mm are definitely going to be left in the dust.

I really want to try and LED build for a small frag or qt tank. I could actually justify adding one to my system if I use led's. I believe the nano reef people have public powerbuys for all of the components. Last time they had one is was very reasonably priced for a 13 cree chip system (drivers and all).

Definitely talk to Brad (Beastie). He can tell you everything that you need to know.

jd · « **Reply #48 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:28:33 »

I've been thinking about doing this with my Pico. It needs an overhaul anyway. I'll accept donations to be the guinea pig

TechGuy · « **Reply #49 on:** July 16, 2009, 12:08:59 »

Quote from: jd on July 16, 2009, 11:28:33

I've been thinking about doing this with my Pico. It needs an overhaul anyway. I'll accept donations to be the guinea pig

How do you like your Pico? I was going to buy one for work. Hows the stock lighting?

2024 Ohio Reef Frag Swap

Author Topic: DIY LEDs - anybody using or want to use? (Read 6899 times)

Blown76mav

slandis3

Blown76mav

Blown76mav

slandis3

slandis3