Metal halide vs led (price)

[Amstar]

Looking at redoing my lighting setup.

Lumatek 400 ballasts 3 x $140
Lumatek cords 3 x 15
reflectors. 3 x 75
Bulbs. 3 x 50
Total 840

How much would a  setup/build (have someone build) an LED set up comparable to this lighting set up for a 150 gallon tank

[Wall_Tank]

How much would a  setup/build (have someone build) an LED set up comparable to this lighting set up for a 150 gallon tank

For a good estimate, price out 3-48 LED kits.  From RapidLED or ReefLED Lights.

[Neogenesis]

When it comes to DIY LED's, a lot of the money is saved in doing it yourself. It's going to cost a fair bit of $$$ to pay someone to build them....there is a fair amount of work that goes into them to do it right.   If you looking for a comparable kit to 3 400w Halides, you most likely looking around 72 to 96 LED's.

For 96 LED's, your looking at around $1000 in just parts, and I was looking at high end dimmable kits\parts.  That's also using the best LED's available Cree.  You can use a little lower quality LED's and save money, and well as go with non dimmable drivers, which would save cost as well.  Mind you I'm only running 96 LED's over my 180g tank, so I really don't think you need that many, but that's what I decided on to be comparable to 3 400 watt Halides.



But then you look at this kit...and it's hard to ignore.   http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/90--LEDs--DIY-Dimmable-Kit.html
While still dimmable, it's only via a knob, they are a little lower end LED, but still capable of getting the job done.  Add in heatsinks to that price and your still well below the Cree kits.

[Amstar]

how hard is it to DIY?  do you have to have alot of knowledge? 

The kit from aquastyle doesnt look to bad.  Ive started reading the huge thread on them on reefcentral.

the Lumatek 400 watt ballasts were going to be dimmable (I planned on turning them down to 250watt) but liked the option of being able to go to 400 watt if needed

[Neogenesis]

Gotcha.   If that's the case, I would think you could get away with 72 LED's no problem.  DIY can be as easy or hard as you want.  It's all how familiar you are with the processes involved, and what tools do you have available.  Personally, I go the extra mile, drill every hole, tap "put threads into" every hole, and use nylon screws to fasten everything down.  I do it for ease of changing a LED if it's ever needed, or even mixing in other colors, and I use the nylon screws so there is no chance of grounding out a LED to the heatsink.  Some choose to use thermal epoxy to fasten the LED's into place.  It's about your preference and how much work you want to put into them.  The other part of all of this is soldering, if you have any experience with it, and are you willing to practice and learn how to do it.  It's a very simple process, and with a little practice it's easy to get good at.


Scott

[Wall_Tank]

Mind you I'm only running 96 LED's over my 180g tank, so I really don't think you need that many, but that's what I decided on to be comparable to 3 400 watt Halides.

I have 140 over my 180.   I ran 70 over my 90.    The problem with matching the intensity of a 400w MH system is that you need to use 60 degree optics.   In doing that you need to put the LEDs closer together to avoid banding.    If you only planned on using 250w, then you can get by with 80deg optics and use less LED's.

[Neogenesis]

ok....here is a thread I made on our local forum....which doesn't get a whole lot of traffic, so I don't think I did as good of a job describing everything, but from the pics you can see the process I used.

http://www.farcreef.com/index.php?topic=5.0

[Amstar]

Interesting.  I agree with the drilling of the heat sinks... I have seen and like the idea of being able to change them out very easy.

So would you go with 72 LED's with 80 degree optics or 90 with 60 degree optics?  thinking of 2:1 ratio of blue to white (10K) to give me that 18K-20K look.  what about the red or uv leds?

The tank is 72" long  and has three 24" x 24" sections due to the cross beams. so with three openings would you go with 3 heat sinks for each section.  i just think for the price on this website compared to a brand new set up of metal halides you cant beat it. 

[Wall_Tank]

Since you were talking about 400W MH, I figured you were keeping SPS.   If so, Personally I would do more LED's 90 (minimum)

The Red LED may have some benefit, but you don't want to run them all the time, and not at the same intensity as the rest of the LEDs.  I have 6 total reds on my fixture, but they are only on in the afternoon for about 3 hours.......and at about 300ma.    Some are using the Cyans, but I don't' think that is really needed.

3 Separate fixtures would be easier to handle.   One large fixture like mine is easier to wire, and tie in larger groups of LED's.   (54 LED's on a 185W driver).    I would not put LED's right over your top bracing, but in general it's not that big of a problem......you shouldn't even notice it.

[Neogenesis]

I personally would skip the Red's all together, I hated mine, I chose instead to use some warm whites to bring in some of the red spectrum, which I like since I've done it.

As far as number of LED's, I would start with 72 LED's, 3 separate fixtures.  If you feel it isn't enough, build a 4th and go from there.  I based that number on you buying Cree.  If you go with the bridgelux LED's from say aquastyle online....I would go with their 90 LED kit.  You can't beat that price.

[Amstar]

if i were to go the 90 led kit and buy 6 more leds (96 total) for 32 per each heat sink (heat sink 7.1" x .9" x 15.8") the question i have is the kit only comes with 5 drivers that can handle 12-20 LEDS.  Can you do this (below) or is this ill advised)

so it would go 32 leds per heat sink:
Heat sink 1:  driver (1) 20 LEDS driver (2) 12 LEDS
Heat sink 2:  driver (2) 8 LEDS , Driver (3) 20 LEDS Driver (4) 4 leds, 
Heat sink 3:  driver (4) 16 leds and driver (5) 16 LEDS to come up with the total of 96

with each opening of my tank being 24" across and the heat sink only being 15.8" long.. do I want to with 80 degree?  or do i want to go with a heat sink that is 19.8" long and stick with 60 degree.  of a mixture of 80 degree on the outside and 60 on the inside?

or go with speedymetals http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-2534-8348-12-x-2-x-18-channel-6063-t52-aluminum-extruded.aspx and do 72" x 2" C channel tubes (72" x 2" is $9.62 each ) not sure how many "tubes" I would need to buy if they are 2" across each

[Neogenesis]

You could do that, however you will have wires between your individual heatsinks.

If this were my tank, this is how I would go about it, referring specifically to the 90 LED kit.  I would split the white and blue on separate drivers.  I would end up buying a extra driver on top of the kit to bring the total up to 6.  They are cheap and don't add much cost, but it leaves you with a lot of added flexibility.  That way you can add more LED's to each heatsink in the future if needed, or you can add other colors without having to replace existing LED's.  There are more pro's than cons going this route.  It also allows you to break them into what I'll call channels, white and blue.  I run just the blue Led's to start and end each light cycle. 

As far as optics, it all depends how high above the tank your going to run them....65's are a good bet, but with my XP-G Cree's, I'm going to be making the switch to 80's as I feel I'm getting nearly too much light to the bottom of the tank.  I don't try to grow SPS on the sand.

As far as heatsinks, I get mine from heatsinkusa.com, I use 10"x10" squares, but that's my personal preference.  This again is one of those things that can be done a bunch of different ways.

[Amstar]

I see what your saying.  Right now I am just starting the whole LED process and looking at different options.  I need to get out, search  different options, look at tanks. If I can get it close to the cost of a metal halide setup I might as well go LED's.

Its just hard to pass up the price:  90 LED DIY KIT, 6 more 3w LEDS, an extra driver, shipping, and (5) 72" x 2" C aluminum tubes with shipping for a total of $381.38 for everything.  Plus with the extra driver it will allow me to add additional LEDS.   

looking at doing the LED lights like this and making a light rack out of it, and add T-5's to it.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082235&page=14

[Viggen]

have you compared the looks of LED vs MH?  Some love LED.... others not so much.... which is why I stuck with MH

[Amstar]

Ya I havent done that.  I need to go and see some tanks with LEDs... pictures online are tough to judge.

[Viggen]

yes, I would go look before you get to deep into it.  What bothers me with LED's is the shimmering of the water.  When I look at it I see every color of the LED bulbs in the shimmering..... red, blue, white, whatever..... & for me I do not like it. 

Thus I am dealing with the heat of MH's

[Amstar]

can you balance that out with T-5's to help displace the "spot light" effect of the LEDS?

[Neogenesis]

When looking at setups, take note if they are purely white/blue LED's or if they have made efforts to spread out the spectrum a bit by using some other colors.

[Viggen]

the tanks I have seen (home aquariums & public aquariums) not sure if it's a spotlight effect, is that a narrow or small concentrated area??

The entire tank gets that shimmering with different colors...... zero clue if T5 would help at all

[Neogenesis]

I fought that battle, and hated the what I refer to as the disco ball effect.  You get it when your LED's are spaced too far apart with narrow optics and close to the water.  That was on my 46g bow before I upgraded.  I find I don't have that problem with the big tank.  Now the LED's are around 15" above the tank, and with 65 degree optics. 24 led's grouped on a 10"x10" square.  I really saw the disco effect when I ran one or 2 red LED's trying to spread the spectrum.  They got ripped back out the very same day.

 I have seen tanks that had a LED T5 hybrid and it looked good.  I chose not to go that route so I don't ever have to change bulbs. I believe t5's would help reduce the disco ball effect as they are not a directional point of light like LED's, therefore reducing that nasty effect.

[Amstar]

I think if I went LEDs I would go with (4) 72" x 2" C tubes.  that would be 24 LEDS per strip.... would i then could still put 32 LEDS over each opening. This will allow me to add 24 LEDs to a 5 C tube to get to 120 LEDs and a 6th strip (down the road if wanted) to get to 144 LEDs would would allow close to a 200 PAR on the sandbed



Also I've heard of soft white.... what is soft white?   Should you mix up 10k, 65k, and 45k white with royal blues / and regular blue?

[DarinSchmidt]

The LED units i build are 8.5x18" and contain 63 LEDs, or you can go down to 45 LEDs and save about $80. THey cost  $671.60 per unit, but i can give a discount on that depending on how many units you buy.

If you looked at my DIY thread on the LEDs that i built for my 300gal, each unit has 28 LEDs but they are ran at about 8-900mA which is pretty high and generates a bt of heat. The benefit to more LEDs is that you can then run them at less mA and lengthens their life, i plan on placing a large order next month for some LEDs to add to my current setup and for the scrubbers that i'll be building.

[mbettman]

How do these projects compare to an already made one like ecoray?

[DarinSchmidt]

ecoray's use 1w LEDs. I use 3w LEDs, so the 3w's are brighter. They are more compareable to the AI Sol's but with only the ability to dim the unit or individual colors, not programmed for weather effects and such. http://www.shop.fragtasticreef.com/AquaIllumination-AI-SOL-LED-Blue-and-White-AquaIllumination-SOL-AI.htm This is an AI Sol, 24LED, for 400 bucks.