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Author Topic: New 150 gallon build in the works  (Read 2987 times)

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Offline Tony

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New 150 gallon build in the works
« on: April 23, 2020, 00:21:51 »
Hey everyone!

I'm coming back to the hobby again!  Long story short, I found a career, got married, bought a house, got a puppo, and now I want a reef back in my house since life isn't quite so young and unstable, lol.  I figured I would use some of this quarantine time to set up this new tank I got.  Last time around I set up my 90 gallon as a reef.  While it was a fantastic experience, it cost me a lot of money and headache due to inexperience and poor design/planning from the start.  This forum was a wealth of knowledge for me in the past.  I want to do things right this time around, and already came across a question pretty early on that I don't want to move past without advice on.  I think I know the answer, but I've been out of the hobby for several years now.  So here's the plan, and then the question.  I'll post photo updates to go along with it as I make decent progress markers, but the photos attached are the tank as I received it, and the work i finished today which is noted later.

I received a 150 gallon tank with a black oak stand and hood for free from a nonprofit if I was willing to drain and relocate it.  Done deal.  The tank looks good, and was set up as a basic freshwater with two massive canister filters.  The idea is to set it up as a reef tank with a sump, refugium, skimmer, uv sterilizer, and then for potential addons I have a RKE Titanium Plus controller(which i'm not sure is still relevant with tech moving the way it is these days) and I'll likely add dosing pumps as they become necessary.  I'm going for a design that's quiet and easy to work on underneath to keep things as simple as possible.  My prior build ended up with so many addons along the way that working under it became a nightmare.  I want maintenance to be a positive thing rather than a negative one :)

The question:  The tank has no holes in it since it was used with two canisters.  I've been looking a lot at sump designs, and will either go with one large sump that feeds everything, or two sumps, one with a large refugium in it.  I geek out over underwater plants and critters so a refugium is basically just another tank for me.  I'm trying to decide how to move the water to the sumps and back.  I've looked at hang on boxes, and technology has made them pretty slick, but I'm still wondering if i just need to have the tank drilled.  If so, and you would recommend it be drilled, do you have a recommendation over what design to put in for either 1 or two sumps?  I've had my eye on the bean animal design, but i know nothing about cutting glass, and i'm curious how much space it starts to take up in the tank.  If you run two sumps, can you cut the size of the piping down to account for that, or is that a no-no in a tank that will have snail shells/obstructions?  I'm just thinking about the size of the pipes coming up into the tank, and then the partition around them x2, and whether anyone thinks it's worth it or what your best recommendation would be.

Any input would be hugely appreciated!  =D

Progress:  I just got the hood and base sanded and painted, and moved into position in the house.  The tank is way to heavy to move more than necessary, so I want to leave it as it until I get the sump/plumbing/tank cutting figured out. 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 18:00:46 by Tony »
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Offline dbowman

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first of all welcome. i see that you joined in '13 so thank you for being here for us who are new.
a first question is whether you can drill or not. is the tank tempered glass?are you sure? lol
what is the thickness of the glass? who manufactured the tank?
I am a newbie, so I originally built a DIY over the back pvc overflow so that i wouldn't have to drill. it was fun doing it but i was concerned with the reliability of the siphon. I subsequently drilled a 75 gal marineland tank to accept an Eshopps Eclipse L overflow box and return line. it was fairly straightforward to do and the hole saw bit that came with the kit was all i needed to drill three holes.
either way you go would allow for one or two sumps. Most of the reef ready tank designs for 150 gal have two overflows so that might give you some ideas as to whether you might go that way.
the skimmer that you use will be the first line of defense against obstructions. my overflow uses  a bean animal   3x 1" piping going down and a 1 1/4" return based on the return pump.
may i suggest that you look at my build thread for ideas as to whether my experience would be of use to you; no problem either way,
I know i am sloppy so i was happy that there is no carpet under/ around my tanks. i was planning on an in-cabinet sump but maintenance/ humidity issues convinced me to put my sump in the basement. I like the idea of seeing into it so that was a win/win. i use gravity to drop into the sump and pump back from the sump. since i use a retired freshwater 55 for the sump i have a 24" x 12" x 12" refugium if you have the luxury of two sumps you could use overflow to cascade them or pump between them or create an overflow /return for each. One thing i have learned is that the total flow for the tank does not have to come from the sump return. i believe that the movement in the tank is better achieved by wave makers/ power heads, I have a quiet system that makes less noise than the freshwater because there is no air stone burbling and no hob biowheel filters like in my freshwater.
 thanks,
Dave
i recommend R2R as a good source of info.       

Offline SweetReefOH

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Welcome back Tony!

My personal opinion, if you even having a slight want to have 2 sumps, I would do it now rather than later. I would utilize 2 beananimal overflow boxes. 1 for each sump so that in an emergency (pump failure) you are only dealing with the one fuge. On the negative side, that’s double the cost of a single sump. So you just have to weigh your options/cost.

Drilling glass is not as scary as it sounds. I was incredibly nervous cutting my first tank but it’s like old hat now lol. Good luck Tony!

Offline lazylivin

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Welcome back!

Offline CoralBeauties

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I recommend keeping things as simple as you can.  One sump as big as you feel you need it to be.  Getting to many pumps and equipment is that much more maintenance and potential failure items.  I am fortunate enough to be able to keep my filter equipment behind me tank.  usually the height of the stand is very limiting for a sump and equipment.  Getting a skimmer in and out of a sump can be very challenging with an under the stand sump.  Many of the custom built sumps are lower profile for just that reason.  I really like my synergy reef overflow.  it required drilling my tank but like sweetreefoh mentioned it is more intimidating  then anything.  You can put alot of water through it and is extremely low profile inside the tank.  If your a premium club member there are many tools that you can borrow as a member and drilling bits are one of the many tools.
Good luck with your build.  I enjoy the planning and putting together almost as much as enjoying the completed tank.
Jeff

Offline Tony

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I appreciate all the insight so far everyone!  While combing through everything I've decided to drill the tank.  It's a marineland 150, so the sides shouldn't be tempered.  I double checked with some polarized lenses to be safe.  I'm still debating what to use for a sump.  I considered what a couple of you said and want to keep it down to 1 tank for simplicity and power management.  I've considered a 55 with baffles, i'm just not certain I will care much for the height of the tank under the stand.  I'm really looking to maximize the size of the refugium as much as possible.  I've considered a custom made one, but many of them seem to be pretty pricey and lack the refugium space i'm seeking anyways.  So i'm looking for a sump at the moment.  If I don't figure something else out i'll likely end up putting baffles in a 4' tank.  In the meantime I'm probably going to order my overflow here in the next day or two :)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 17:23:36 by Tony »
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

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Offline Tony

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Alright, so i'm on to the next step now!  I picked up a V2 Shadow Overflow (I know the first one had issues with salt creep/noise and such but I liked some of the changes they made in accordance, so I figured I would give it a try).  I also picked up a 55 gallon tank to convert into a sump.  Still need to snag some baffles or a kit for that though.

What are your guys thoughts on overflow box placement?  My initial thought was to center the holes in the tank to allow for balanced flow through the tank.  I've done a bit of reading, and several people say it's mostly aesthetic based on your tank location.  The tank is in the corner of the room.  Would it make sense to place it on one of the sides to simplify the plumbing and throw the overflow in the back corner, or is that preferential in your opinions?  I mainly ask because the tank is 6 feet long, so i'm not sure how important that is with such a large tank.  My 90 reef had a pre-drilled bottom, so it was all done for me ahead of time. 

Either way, I'll likely be doing the drilling either tonight or tomorrow.  I set up a small 29 gallon bowfront freshwater tank beside the bed, and one of the gaskets on the returns had a leak so i'm also cleaning up a little bit of water.  We will see when I get to it, but I should be able to throw some photos up here soon. =D
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline CoralBeauties

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 18:16:28 »
I put mine dead center of my 6 ft tank and it would be almost impossible to service it with my hood on it and the tank being 30in deep.  My tank is open on both sides but I would have been real tempted to install it on one of the ends if the tank was against the wall like yours.  Only  bad thing would be if you have to resell the tank for any reason it might be a problem.  I must have the v1 overflow, I have a lot of salt creep all the way around the lid of my overflow.
Jeff

Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2020, 21:30:44 »
with my 4 foot i put the overflow on the back on one side and the return toward the other end. where your stand is i would put the overflow on the back toward the right side/ this would give you access from the end toward the room. the return would go toward the corner of the room. that would give you the best circulation,

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2020, 23:04:39 »
I got the drilling done for the tank today!  Like many of you said, it's a piece of cake once you do it.  I'm sure some of you would have been more comfortable doing it quite a lot quicker than I ended up doing it, but I wanted to play it safe being my first time and make sure they were nice and neat.  I figured better safe than sorry, lol.  I thought about several of your inputs, and opted to drill on the right side of the tank to ensure I had easy access to the overflow box.  I toyed with the plumbers putty method and ended up just putting the guide back on, and running my 100' line off my RO unit out as a constant water supply.  My wife helped me drill the first hole, managing the water for me(which is great because as a diver she's in total support of the tank!)  After the first one I was way more relaxed with the process, and was able to tape it down and do it quite easily on my own.  It took a while given how thick the glass was, but they came out nice and neat!  The location on them ended up perfect as well.  I was super paranoid about that.  I can't handle seeing my lights through the display glass, and that overflow is designed for a rimless tank.  I'm using a spacer kit they make for them to use on rimmed tanks, but I was nervous I would drill slightly too low, because there isn't a good way to see how it all lines up since the box isn't transparent.  You just have to trust their template, and then measure 10 different times like I did out of paranoia before drilling, haha.  I threw the overflow on for a min to double check after it was done, and the water level will be sitting pretty right above the trim line in the tank.  I'm going to do an over the top return so I don't have to worry about any kind of siphon complications, and I've got the entire corner to hide it in. 

One thing I'm definitely noticing about this build is how much more excited I am about the build itself because I didn't just convert something I kinda had in place.  I'm really loving doing all the labor, and think that is going to pay dividends for me with that positive mindset about tank maintenance that I struggled with last time.  The simple fact that I'm designing it the way I want it to be makes me want to work with it.  It won't be a hodgepodge mess of cords, hoses, pipes, and pumps all cramped and competing for space. 

The tank is currently sitting in the garage with a layer of rubber drying on it.  After cleaning it up, I put a layer of plastidip on the back of it because I really wouldn't be able to do much if saltwater got between the background/glass and dried.  Plus it peels off easy if I decide to take it off one day.  Tomorrow once everything is dry, i'll line up the gaskets, score out any plastidip in the way, and get the tank on the stand with the overflow in place.  Then it will be on to the sump!  I also picked up some plastic screening to put on the canopy and the stand, as hair tends to be an issue in the household from time to time.  We have a mainecoon kitty named Puffers, and a wooly siberian husky named Kakashi.  I can only imagine what might happen to all the impellers in the system if they blow their winter coats, lol.  I'll throw a couple pics of everyone up with the progress photos though.  My wife's name is Amanda, and she says hi to everyone as well! :)

P.S. - If you can read the sticker on the template, I realize it's not in the correct spot  :P  I had to measure the inside of the tank since it had a rim, mark it, and then move the template to the outside where I used it as a guide.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 23:09:42 by Tony »
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
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Offline JSellars

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2020, 08:54:39 »
Looks really good! Sometimes building it is more enjoyable than anything else, it’s nice to see it all come together. Holes turned out great! I would have been a nervous wreck drilling them lol


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Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2020, 11:37:11 »
very nice pictures and commentary, feels like I'm right there. great idea on the plastidip. I am also with you on the construction being a big factor on my enjoyment. is your kitty a climber?

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2020, 12:13:19 »
Thanks guys! 

Yeah, I'm super happy with how they turned out.  No flaking or anything on either end.  Lol, well I was definitely nervous about drilling it.  Mostly because if I messed it up, not only would I have to find another tank, but then haul the beast to my house.  Not the most enjoyable part of the build, lol.  I just watched several videos though, and told myself I was going to go a slow as it took on the first one.  I know how sanding principles work, and figure I could make it work even if it took 3 hours, haha.  You pick up the feel for it pretty quick once you actually start drilling.  Then I just backed off to a snail's pace once I started breaking through somewhere until it fell though.  Ran the bit back through to make sure there were no spurs, and that was it.  Everyone was right, it's a lot scarier sounding than it was.

I appreciate the compliment.  I want to make careful note of the build as I go so I have a record in case it goes great or I run into any snags, I can adjust the plan for anything in the future :) Plus it's always fun to show off your hard work.  She climbs a bit, but I'm not overly concerned about her getting on top of the tank given its height.  She's way more likely to sit next to the tank and watch through the glass all wide eyed and fascinated, lol.  If she got up there it would likely be to get away from the dog when he's in a playful mood and she's not, lol.
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2020, 12:28:35 »
yeah you figured out what i was asking. when we had a cat it would jump up on everything. glass covers were a lifesaver I don't think screen would support enough weight and i am about to eliminate the cover on my sump.

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2020, 12:59:08 »
Yeah, I've also heard horror stories of people cats coming from the litter box and then pawing at the water.  You can imagine what that could do to your water chemistry, lol.  I definitely wouldn't trust a screen for her weight.  Luckily the hood pretty well covers the top other than a long slot for light mounting and ventilation.  I'm putting the screen across that and the back of the hood and stand.  That way it's still open air to prevent condensation, but should keep the majority of hair out.
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2020, 14:18:44 »
sounds really good i had chocolate labs with a bright blue baseboard i couldn't believe the amount of hair that showed up on the edges of the floor.    I repainted all of the baseboards Chocolate. end of problem

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2020, 20:24:52 »
I'm a bit overdue for an update on here.  Had some shipping delays on a couple things, but all said and done, the tank is setup, plumbing is done, all the equipment is ready to go, and it's mostly filled up with water =D

It's currently sitting with roughly a 2.5" sand bed comprised of mesoflakes.  I finished up the plumbing on the back.  With the bean animal set up in the overflow, I converted the 1.5" lines to 1" lines, and installed gate valves.  I put unions wherever I could in case I need to disassemble or replace anything at some point (prior lesson learned, lol).  Most of the work went into the sump during this time though.  I ordered a 55 gallon sump kit from exotic marine systems, and I have to say I'm quite happy with it.  It has 2 4x14 filter sock slots, a nice refugium section with a handy little spacing plate so your chaeto doesn't get pulled into the overflow for the next section.  The next section holds my skimmer, which I ordered a Reef Octo Classic 200INT for.  Both the refugium section and the skimmer section have baffles that allow for flow adjustments between sections to ensure it runs quiet.  It then runs through a rubble tray/bubble trap before going to the return compartment.  I went with an Eheim 1262 for my return pump, which should give me a bit over 500 gph at 6'.  I plumbed the return line up to the tank and have it split into 2 outputs with loc-line.  I then added the black plastic screening to go across the back of the stand and hood to help keep pet hair out of the system.  I decided last minute to put a sheet of foam across the back of the tank to help with temperature control in case of power outage.  I have panels for the sides and front I can throw on as well if I ever needed to.  Here are some progress pics though! 

I'm still waiting on a couple minor things, but all in all, I should be able to start cycling the tank within the next few days! 

I also don't have my lights set up yet.  I'm potentially looking for lights, or i'm considering building a frame to attach to the lights where nothing could fall into the tank.  I actually lost my last reef tank due to the back housing of a light rusting, and some of the rust fell into the tank behind the display rock.  By the time I figured out what happened, the damage was done.  So i'm considering a plastic frame to adhere to the base of the light itself, which would also help separate the air space and keep the hot air coming off the lights away from the water/humid air away from the electronics.  I haven't decided on all that just yet, but that's some of what's to come :)
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline CoralBeauties

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2020, 21:04:51 »
Looks great!
Jeff

Offline lazylivin

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2020, 23:36:00 »
Coming along nicely. For the lights you can set them on top of canopy and cut out a hole smaller then that of the fixture so light is unobstructed. May have to add a bit of moulding on canopy to hide depending on light used. This will protect the light from any moisture and tank from heat

Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2020, 11:35:48 »
nice work and pictures.

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2020, 19:46:17 »
I appreciate all the feedback everyone.  I took your advice Lazy, and cut openings for the lights.  Used some small plastic pieces to hold them in place.  Saved me a lot of work, lol.  I picked up a couple ocean revives(courtesy of heinbaughb), and still need to snag one more if anyone has a spare they are looking to offload.  Otherwise salt is mixed and ready for rock soon.  I wanted to run these photos by everyone really quick though.  For my sump I used GE silicone #1, and it's turning quite yellow.  The sump sat dry for weeks to cure, and I find it unlikely that it has to do with UV light, as the most intense yellow is furthest from the sump light (which is only on when I'm working in it).
 I've seen where many reef forums have spoken about this, but no one seems to know the cause.  No one seems to have issues with it, but all that's in the tank is RO water, salt, and the live sand so far.  Has anyone run across this before or have any idea what the cause might be?  Would like to double check before I risk the welfare of any critters.  The yellow will also scrape off if I run my finger across it.  Could this be due to mixing the salt in the tank?
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2020, 19:53:52 »
Here is another photo.  I would almost think it's iron due to the orangish coloration, but our water isn't high in iron and I'm running RO, so I'm kinda puzzled
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2020, 20:34:38 »
i have heard of color found in mixing tanks after mixing some salt brands. which salt did you use?
quote from R2R  'ask because I use Reef Crystals and 0 TDS RODI water and I have found after 24-36 hours my container (Brute can) starts to develop a yellowish/orange residue in the bottom. I use a powerhead to keep it...'

Offline Tony

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2020, 20:41:17 »
Reef crystals.  It was what I used in the past, but I always used a rubbermaid trash can for mixing.

I found the post you mentioned after a bit more specific searching (ty btw), and it looks like maybe that happens if you mix the salt too quickly.  Might be a mineral buildup or something.  They mentioned some yellow water as well, but I haven't had that.  I'm thinking it has to be the salt.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 20:47:14 by Tony »
No escape from the underwater world.  It always pulls me back in.

150 reef project
SSI Master Diver

Offline dbowman

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Re: New 150 gallon build in the works
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2020, 20:48:01 »
well you did say that you mixed in the tank. btw other salts(minerals) present yellow besides iron.

 

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