Nursing Corals back to health

[Wall_Tank]

SO I have a few pieces of SPS that for one reason or another bleached out.  They still have decent polyp extension, but little to know growth or improvment in color.   For the ones that appeared to get too much light, aren't doing much better in reduced light.  What are your experiences.

[lazylivin]

I did that to my Ora Pearlberry. 

[TechGuy]

SO I have a few pieces of SPS that for one reason or another bleached out.  They still have decent polyp extension, but little to know growth or improvment in color.   For the ones that appeared to get too much light, aren't doing much better in reduced light.  What are your experiences.

Patience, and stability. The corals I have brought back, sat in the same spot, in the middle of the tank for weeks. When they showed color, they stayed put. If they turned brown, I moved them up.


Why did they bleach? Do you have phosphates present?

[Reefd Up]

How long have you had them?  Did you do anything recently before the bleaching?  How long have they been in reduced lighting?  Did you recently change phosphate-reducing media?  Bleaching can be caused by both high & low light.  How are your parameters?

[TechGuy]

How long have you had them?  Did you do anything recently before the bleaching?  How long have they been in reduced lighting?  Did you recently change phosphate-reducing media?  Bleaching can be caused by both high & low light.  How are your parameters?

Low light bleaching? I have never seen this. Generally, Zooanthelia increase (brown) when there is not enough light, and bleach when in excess. New phosphate media can cause it aswell, phosphate is needed

[Reefd Up]

Zooxanthellae will also leave the coral in extremely low light conditions.  They can end the symbiotic relationship for any adverse reason. 

Try putting some SPS into a no-light situation...oh, they'll bleach!

http://www.aims.gov.au/source/research/climate-change/coral-bleaching.htm

Have there been any temperature swings lately?

[Wall_Tank]

Brian, the PearlBerry from you is doing okay,  still sitting in my frag tank....not sure where I want to put it.

This is nothing relatively new, the bleaching tended to happen relatively soon after aquiring a coral.  Some obviouly bleached due to placement and light.   Others were find for months and just bleached.  I have some that have been bleached for 4 or 5 months now....   I bought a monti digita, it was a tad bit brown, I did a normal light aquisition over a week or two, In it's final placement, it when from brown to purple to a very bright blue, then to white.  This took about 3 weeks to make that transition.   One coral that was bleached, I cut off a bad spot, it seemed to have a weak slime response.

Phosphates are undetectable with a salifert kit.  Brian tested my water with his Hanna photometer at 0.03.

This is really not a question of what happened, it is more what processes or techniques seem to work the best to get a coral to recover.

[TechGuy]

Zooxanthellae will also leave the coral in extremely low light conditions.  They can end the symbiotic relationship for any adverse reason. 

Try putting some SPS into a no-light situation...oh, they'll bleach!

http://www.aims.gov.au/source/research/climate-change/coral-bleaching.htm

Have there been any temperature swings lately?

Thats extreme though! I don' think a No-Light situation is what happened here

What happened can be an indicator of what went wrong.

.03 is great.

I would try a lower spot.

[lazylivin]

Lower light usually does the trick for me but not all the time.

[Reefd Up]

If you don't figure out what caused it, you probably won't be able to get them to recover.  Corals will recover on their own in a healthy system.

I would post your parameters...temp, salinity, alk, ca, mag, pH, etc.  How often are you doing water changes, how much?  How do you topoff?  What sort of lights are you running?  Are you dosing anything?  How old is the system?  What skimmer are you using?  How deep is your sandbed?  What is your flow like? 

All of the questions asked above (and more) can affect SPS. 

[Wall_Tank]

I've had plenty of corals nurse back to health.  It just seems the bleached ones don't recover.

So here is my tank history.....

90gal display
38 gal sump (About 1/2 full)
2 x 10 gal frag tanks, plumbed into the main.

System is 6-7 years old.  But only stable for 2 years. (I was out of town too much before)

Temp: 79  (up to 81 during the day in the Summer)
Salinity: 1.025
Calc: 450
Alk: 9-10
MG: 1450
ph: 7.95-8.10
NO3 - Undetectable
PO4 - undetectable

--Water Changes: Doing continuous changes with a litermeter, about 5 liters per day.
--TopOff with Float Valve, Some Kalk is dosed with topoff too for pH control at night.
--Running a Ca reactor,
--Lighting 2x250 12k MH,  3x54 T5HO   1x250w MH over the Frag Tank.
--Skimmer is a Octopus Needle Wheel rated at 200gal
--SandBed is 4" on average, my Bluespot had done some re-arranging, but this goes back to before my Bluespot.  And nothing got worse after him.
--Flow is a probably about 800gph on the return.  Tunze Streams 6000, 6055 (Running Randomly)

I am dosing about 1.0 ml of VSV per day.  I used to run the full ProdBio package (For a year or so), but now just run BioDigest with the VSV.   Trying to find the right spot for the dose.   I do have a little very dark brown Cyno that grows on the botton side of the rocks.  And some Bubble Algea in certain spots.   I think my Rocks got nutrient soaked during those years I was on the road alot.    With the VSV system, I'm dosing some aminos.

[Reefd Up]

As I'm sure you're aware, VSV dosing can cause bleaching in SPS.  I'm not terribly familiar with VSV, so maybe someone that has done it can chime in. 

[Wall_Tank]

In my case when I started Prodibio, the nutrients being high would fuel the algea would overrun the corals.  I'm pretty sure I found the large nutrient generators, but I continued to run the VSV, to make sure I have everything sucked out of the rocks and sand.  Over the last 8 months, the bubble algea can be counted in inidividual bubbles, rather than cup fulls of bubbles.    So I'm going to really lower the VSV to see if it is even needed any more.

It's still just spotty as to what bleaches.   Montiporas seem to be the most prone to bleaching. 

[Reefd Up]

Montipora-prone bleaching is a specific VSV problem.  Every person I've known to use VSV has had Monti-specific bleaching (in addition to other SPS bleaching.)  Montipora-prone bleaching in addition to Seriotopora/Stylophora/Pocillopora bleaching can also be caused by low potassium. 

[Wall_Tank]

I've been thinking about the Potassium issue.  I did do a little Lugols dosing in the past, I did not notice much.  But then I also was worried about getting too much Iodine.    Any good way to check "K" level in the tank, or dosing experience?

My Stylophoras did not bleach.  In fact, my Stylos have very good color. 

[Reefd Up]

Last I heard, Zeovit was the only one with a potassium kit out.  If your Stylos are looking good, it's not a low-potassium issue.  They'd be the first thing to go. 

I'm going back to my original conclusion.  There's a pretty good correlation between alkalinity at 9+dkh and carbon dosing (VSV) causing bleaching in SPS.  If you really feel you've exhausted every possible solution and nothing has worked, it might be time for experiment.  (But, I don't think we've heard enough about your tank to encourage it.)  You could try lowering your alk to 8 dkh or actually dosing nitrate.  (Both have been shown to help.)  I'm not encouraging this, just trying to give you options. 

[Kenn]

I'm not encouraging this, just trying to give you options. 

I am sorry  , but when I saw this post all I could think of was people yelling up at a guy on a buildings ledge shouting "JUMP...JUMP...JUMP". They are not telling him to jump....they are just giving him options 


OK.... Back to the topic

[Reefd Up]

I am sorry  , but when I saw this post all I could think of was people yelling up at a guy on a buildings ledge shouting "JUMP...JUMP...JUMP". They are not telling him to jump....they are just giving him options 

  Sorry, that wasn't my intent.  I just have a hard time giving advice that can put a tank in danger when I don't personally know the owner well...or know the ins & outs of the tank.  My advice is valid as far as I know, but I just can't be 100% sure that's what is wrong with the tank since no other red flags pop up to me. 

There are so many things that can bleach SPS and keep it from re-coloring.  But, if he's doing everything right, something has to be wrong somewhere.  Just giving options.

[Wall_Tank]

Thanks,  I got a chuckle out of this.   Other that buying hardware, I don't make rash decisions.

I ran dkh in the 7.5 to 8 range for a while.  It was much easier when I was using Oceanic Salt.  Being so far out of balance, it was easier to maintain the lower Alk.  But since I was running a CA reactor, it was a bit harder to keep stable.   I made the switch to RSCP salt (Just finished bucket #1), which was much more in balance, and my dkh crept up to where it is today.

About 6 months ago when running the low dkh, I had a coral get burned tips.  While I had to frag off the tips, this coral did recover.  Although I 'm being carefull with this, as it seems prone.  It is a very very deep Redish Brown with very light aqua blue tips.

I'm not sure I'm going to do the Nitrate dosing, other than by maintaining a moderate feeding, and slowly backing off on the VSV.  The other thing is that I'm going to try pumping fresh air into the tank to see if I can keep the pH up over 8.0   I know 7.9 is not normally a problem, but I really want to see what higher pH can do.

[Aquatic Specialists]

I agree with you about the fresh air and ph, I think it will do wonders. I always keep SPS in nutrient rich water, I think that is a must. I have also had great success using iodine to aid in healing and regeneration, I have had some corals come back from bleached to positive signs of color in just a week or so. I love Lugol's as a coral dip, but not so much as a supplement, people tend to overdose with it. If you tend to slack on up keep and tracking of your supplements I would use something like  Tech I as it is a time released formula and harder to overdose, but you do not see results right away. If you are on top of your tank then go ahead and use a Super Iodine supplement it works a little quicker, but be careful not to go overboard. I can never stress enough to follow directions and remember that some supplement dosing directions are for tank capacity and some are for actual gallons in your tank/sump. Always take into consideration displacement from rock and sand.

[Reefd Up]

I've been thinking about the Potassium issue.  I did do a little Lugols dosing in the past, I did not notice much.  But then I also was worried about getting too much Iodine.    Any good way to check "K" level in the tank, or dosing experience?

I think he was referring to dosing Lugols for the potassium in the potassium iodide (main ingredient other than water).  The majority of Lugol's is in the inorganic iodide that provides very little antibacterial healing properties.  However, iodide can be converted to iodine in the aquarium, but cannot be easily regulated.  Iodide is primarily uptaken by macroalgaes.  There is some iodine in Lugol's, but whether it is beneficial to dose it is still controversial due to the varying forms...and it is generally considered "toxic" (iodine, iodate, and iodide...all play different roles in the aquarium.) 

As far as the potassium content in Lugols, it's very trivial. 

[Wall_Tank]

Did I see that someone was going to talk about trace elements at the Nov meeting.  I missed the research on the iodide portion of Lugols, instead of Iodine.

I was trying to improve the "K" more than the iodine.  Trying to get some of my reds and purple colors boosted.   I did some reading on Iodine's benefit for bleaching too, so I went with Lugols rather than a separate formula of K or I.   Any recommendations to try,

[Reefd Up]

Most people trying to dose potassium use the high-purity stuff from iherb.com. 

I'm planning to give a presentation on trace elements at the Nov meeting at our house.  I can make sure to address iodine if you're interested.

[slandis3]

I thought potassium would bring out your blue's. I was dosing it for a while then I seen the test kit was something like $60 so I stopped. I didn't want to does or it if I couldn't test for it. I was using potassium pills from meijers.

[Reefd Up]

Potassium just doesn't bring out the blues.  Low potassium levels will cause fading and eventually the death of Seriotoporas, Stylophoras, Pocilloporas first.  Next, Montiporas will start to bleach and die.  Lastly, Acroporas will lose their blue coloration and have tissue necrosis.  Low potassium levels cause corals to become intolerant of high light.

Most salt mixes have somewhat adequate levels of potassium, so water changes work in most cases.  Mike, I'll have to research it more, but trying to remember my research from 2 years ago, potassium in pill form wasn't ideal.  Can't for the life of me remember why.  There's 20 billion forms of potassium...and I don't know what form the pills were in.