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Offline Dstyles

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Brand New at this
« on: October 08, 2008, 08:12:08 »
Hey everyone, I am just getting started with salt water tank.  Used to have lots of fresh water mainly African tanks.  Want to try something new and beautiful.  What are some of the best filters to use for a 75 gallon and where are the best places to look to purchase?  I want to keep some live rock and smaller non agressive fish.  Also what are the most essential items I need to get first?  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks
One Day At A Time

Offline Amstar

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 09:35:43 »
if you are just looking to keep live rock and fish I would go with a wet/dry filter system.  Joel at aquariums etc may have some used ones for sale, or Dodd at North Dixi Reef may have one or two as well.


things to get first:

good filtration system
ro/di unit
and the usual for salt-water (salt, hydrometer, heaters, etc)

then try to map out what things you want to keep that way you can decided what type of lighting to go with. 

Offline Dstyles

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 10:33:09 »
Thanks for the tips.  I definitely wanted to go with the wet/dry filter. I apologize for my ignorance but where are the two places you mentioned located?  I am ready to get this set up and start it to cycle.
One Day At A Time

Offline Amstar

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 10:58:03 »
aquariums etc is in centerville near the high school, and north dixie reef is on north dixie sort of by miller lane and all those great places to eat. 

click on the sponors up at the top where it says home, forum, image gallery, new, sponsors for their info

MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 18:28:12 »
First off, I'd question your decision to only keep fish only with live rock (FOWLR).  Make sure this is what you really want by visiting local saltwater aquarium stores so you don't buy the wrong equipment.  I started this hobby by only wanting a FOWLR tank...and now I keep really hard-to-keep corals.  You don't want to have to upgrade equipment anytime soon.

Our sponsors are Aquarium's Etc, Just Coral (by appointment only), and North Dixie Reef.  These are excellent places to start researching different systems and livestock. 

If you're set on a FOWLR tank, in my opinion, the two best filter systems are the Wet/Dry filter and the Refugium/Sump.  The Wet/Dry will probably cost you most money initially unless you find one used.  It will require some plumbing, but it's not too hard.  The only other downside to these systems is that they're not easily upgradable in case you decide you want to keep corals later down the road.  A Refugium/Sump is basically a second tank connected to your main tank.  This tank serves many functions, like holding extra water (the solution to pollution is dilution!), keeping unsightly macroalgae to use nutrients so that algae will not grow in the main tank so much, and to hold other equipment.  Usually most sumps contain extra live rock to act as a filter.

If you're doing a FOWLR tank, don't skimp...get a good skimmer.  This is a huge initial cost, but you'll probably regret it if you don't.  You can get some good used ones on here, our sponsors, ReefCentral.com, or at the local swaps. 

With a FOWLR tank, lights may or may not be an issue.  Many people just run normal flourescent lights (shop lights) over their aquariums, but other people like the *shimmer* that metal halide lights give off.  With LED's you can obtain the same *shimmer* with a low electric bill...but it would take a lot of LED's.  Many people just supplement flourescents with LED's.  If you're going to keep corals, you'll want to step up to the Power Compacts (PC), T-5's, or Metal Halides.  All have their pros and cons, which I won't discuss yet.

For a FOWLR tank, you won't have to worry too much about flow, but you'll still need to add some powerheads for extra flow.

Ok, here's my order of things to do:

1.  Be patient
2.  Do lots of research on finding exactly what you want to keep/compatibility
3.  Get the tank and stand (make sure the doors are plenty big on the stand to do maintenance.  If you can't reach all areas under the stand, you probably won't do maintenance as much as you should.)
4.  Get the filter
5.  Get the skimmer (make sure it's compatible with your filter...plumbing and all.)
6.  Get the powerheads
7.  Get a hydrometer/refractometer (something that measures the salinity of your water), an Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/PH test kit, a thermometer, salt (Instant Ocean is a good inexpensive brand), and filtered water (you can buy reverse osmosis - deionized water at local aquarium stores...which is what you should use). 
8.  Test fill your aquarium system to check for leaks
9.  Get your live rock (LR) and sand.  You'll want 1.5-2lbs of live rock per gallon of water in your system plus another pound of sand per gallon.
10.  Make saltwater out of the purified water and salt.  Use the hydrometer/refractometer to measure the salinity.  The salinity should be around 1.025 (which may differ depending on your inhabitants.)
11.  Put your powerheads and skimmer into your saltwater (this can be done in your tank or in a large rubbermaid tub...whichever.)
12.  Place your live rock and sand into the water, turn on the skimmer and powerheads.  This is cycling your live rock to get the nitrogen cycle going.  Bacteria will establish itself at this time.
13.  Check the chemical levels about once a week while the rocks cycle.
14.  Until the levels read:  Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, and low Nitrate, perform weekly 10% water changes with the saltwater you made.
15.  Once the levels are on target, you can move everything into your tank...or if you did this in your tank, you can add the lights.
16.  Don't add anything to your system until you start to see algae growing.  Keep testing chemical levels weekly.
17.  Once algae starts growing, you can SLOWLY start to add a clean-up crew (which may consist of blue or red-legged hermit crabs and warmer-water snails.)  Avoid specialty crabs, snails, or starfish at this time.
18.  Once the algae seems to be in check and the levels are stable, you can add ONE fish.  Take this slow.  You don't want to crash your system by adding 30 fish at once.  It's best to place your most shy fish in first so it can get established.
19.  Once the levels stablize, you can add another fish.  If nitrate levels start rising, you'll need to either quit adding fish, or cut back on feeding.  Many invertabrates and fish cannot tolerate high nitrate levels (plus it fuels algae.) 

Ok, that should start you off pretty well.  If this sounds really complicated, I'm sorry.  I've made my mistakes and watched a lot of other people make mistakes.  There are easier ways (and cheaper) to do this, but you won't be happy most likely.

Any questions?  :)
Nikki

Offline Todd W.

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 19:52:40 »
Well said Nicole...

If you take any of the advice do these PLEASE.....

1.  Be patient
2.  Do lots of research on finding exactly what you want to keep/compatibility

and remember rule #3.... see rule number 1......

This hobby requires patients...... 

apelaston

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2008, 20:02:28 »
I dont think it requires patients but it can do u n2 1 if u dont take your time. my biggest rule is look at what u like leave and research it even if u think u already know bout it and go buy after that. and definately have patience! good that you are here asking and learning. . we have all been in ur shoes. . ask away

Offline Grunk08

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2008, 20:10:45 »
I havent been doing this for very long but I have already realized that the only thing you can do fast is lose money! patience,patience,patience. One of the things I wish I would have done when I got started was bought a reef ready tank. (drilled with overflows) More initial cost but leaves a lot more flexibility down the road. Also, whatever size tank you think you want, go bigger.

Just my $0.02
Tony

quicksilver

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 20:34:42 »
Good luck.

Offline Dstyles

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 20:57:34 »
Thank you all for all the information and advice.  I will definitely be patient.  Anyhow I may have misspoke.  I do want some coral along with the live rock and fish.  I also would like some shrimp and crabs.  I don't know exactly which ones.  I will go to visit some fish stores this weekend, make a list of what I like and do some research on them.  The larget tank I have room for is a 75g.  I hope this is big enough!  I am sure I will ask more questions as I get things up and running.  But one thing I am learning up front that will be long lasting is I have to have patience.  Thanks again
One Day At A Time

MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 21:55:36 »
I have a 40g SPS dominant system...and my fiance successfully kept a 3g tank with corals for 1.5 years.  Size does matter, but it's not an end to the world.

There are three main types of corals (to make life simple.)  I won't even give you the long names...just the acronymns for now.   ;D 

"Softies" consists of corals like zoanthids, mushrooms, leathers, xenia, gorgonians, etc.  (I'd stay away from gorgonias for now).  They're usually very easy to keep, fairly inexpensive (usually...unless you get into the crazy zoanthids and stuff), and very hardy.  As far as lights, you'll probably want to go with PC's at the minimum.  I know a lot of people say, "you need X watts of light per gallon," but that saying is for the most part...a bunch of garbage.  If you're going to say it though...I'd say probably 4-5 watts per gallon for softies.  I won't explain why that saying is garbage...but don't take it as the golden rule.

"LPS" are large polyped corals.  These are really cool because they love to eat big chunks of food.  They usually need more light than "softies" and are usually more expensive (and can get extremely expensive for the rare stuff).  LPS consist of "acans", "frogspawn", "galaxea", "bubble corals", and pretty much anything else with huge tentacles.  I would go with PC's as a minimum for these corals again...just bump the wattage up a bit.

"SPS" are sometimes called the "stick-looking corals".  They're the small polyped corals.  These demand the most light and care...lots of supplements, perfect water quality, tons of flow...and LIGHT.  I would only use metal halides with these...but some people keep them under T-5's.  That's a matter of preference though.  SPS consist of Montiporas, Acroporas, Seriatoporas, etc.  These can be inexpensive for common brown pieces to extremely expensive for rare items.  If you keep these, you'll need to plan your system very much in detail first...and plan to dedicate a lot of time to it.  If you like the look of SPS and want to try them, I'd suggest trying the softies and LPS first...wait about a year...and then try SPS.  To give you an idea about SPS...I have 560W of light on my 40g tank, and some days I don't think that's enough.  I also have 80x turn-over flow through my tank. 

Another thing, if you're planning to keep corals, you'll need to get an Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium test kit...and test these regularly.  Salifert makes an excellent kit, but the Red Sea is an inexpensive alternative.

One last thing, I forgot to mention...you'll need a heater too.  :)

NORTHDIXIEREEF

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 22:37:39 »
WELCOME

TIME IS YOUR BEST FRIEND WHEN SETTING UP A NEW TANK. IF YOU RUSH IT, THE ONLY THING THAT IT WILL SPEED UP IS MONEY LEAVING YOUR POCKET.

SO DO YOUR RESEARCH, TAKE YOUR TIME.

GOOD LUCK,DODD

Offline Dstyles

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 06:53:01 »
I am very glad that I asked.  You all have given me some valuable info.  I will use.  Thanks again.
One Day At A Time

Offline MSUJenn

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 08:24:32 »
Nikki, I think you just found a couple more articles for the reef brief  ;) .

MechanicalEngineer

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 15:18:09 »
Hehe, correction...I think I just WROTE a new article for the Reef Brief.  :)

Midwest Express

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 16:05:32 »
Good info Nikki.  Makes me think more about a few things!

Midwest Express

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2008, 13:31:02 »
  I also have 80x turn-over flow through my tank. 

Sorry for butting in on the thread but I have to ask...

How do you achieve that without a sand storm in your tank?  I want high turnover in my 75 and my 14 gal bio cube, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that without making low flow corals angry and/or creating a sand storm.

Feel free to PM or I can start a thread in general discussion for it.

Thanks!

Lost Floridian

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Re: Brand New at this
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2008, 20:27:23 »
First off, this mobile site helps a ton, thanks Gary!

As for the 80x turnover w/o a sand storm: the larger impeler style powerheads help, and also we have a lot of flow aimed more toward the sirface, that also helps w/ O2 exchange.
There is more to it but from the BB that's enough.

-Will. (For Nikki)

 

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