storage of water

[Amstar]

can I take water from my 75 gallon, put it in a 55 gallon with a few pieces of dry live rock and just have a maxi jet for water movement, then use that water later (month and half or so) to help fill the 150 gallon?

[Amstar]

no???

[UD Flyer]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Id also put a heater in there too so the beneficial bacteria doesn’t die off.

[micki]

Is your reasoning to do this so your 150 doesn't have a cycle?  When I upgraded from 55 to 125 I used the water from my 55 along with fresh water to complete the fill and had no problems at all.  Here is an RC link to how I did that.  http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=522147&perpage=15&highlight=micki&pagenumber=1
I think it's on page 3.     

[Kaylyn]

I would be concerned that just reusing the water would not eliminate the cycle if that was the intent. While there are several good things from reusing water in terms of reducing the change, it seems that you would still deal with at least a short period when the tank had to cycle. If I understand the bacteria it is attached to the surface of everything in a tank (live rock, substrate, glass etc.) so reusing material in the tank would reduce the cycle considerably (I will look around see if I can find a link that talks about this). All of that said I could not explain the obvious positive experiance that Micki's describes so I may be missing something. However, I would be nervous about it and error on the side of caution and make sure the new tank was not going to cycle or through the wost of the cycle at least before moving the majority of livestock and tearing down the old tank so that you could not fall back on it. If that is not an option then I would try to take as much material from the old tank as possible into the new setup (even if only temporarily) to try and transfer as much bacteria as possible.

[micki]

You have understandable points Kaylyn.  Prior to my transfer fromt he 55 to 125 I talked at length with Melev.  He suggested I make the transfer this way, I then transfered everything over at the same time used what water I could from my 55 added new water to make up the difference and had no problems.  It basically was like a large water change.  I then added some old sand in tied off stockings and left those in the tank for 2 weeks to help seed the tank.  I saw no change in my livestock corals, inverts and fish at all. 

[Amstar]

my problem is that where my 75 gallon reef is going the 150 will be put in its place.  I have over 70 various corals... so i am trying to use as much "cycled" water as possible to ensure the least amount of cycling in the 150 when I get it up and going.

didnt know if I could start setting up a 55 with water, a few pieces of live rock now and get it cycled the move the water later (wont be till around christmas or after)

[Kaylyn]

I can certainly understand the space issue may drive elements of the transition. I would want to take the steps Micki talks about of putting material in the new tank in tied up stockings or something if you did not want to put it in permanently. The idea of reusing the water is good to cut down on the shock but I do not think it is the water that is cycled but rather the substrate/sand and all other surfaces in the tank. I would even try to get some material well cured in axillary tanks prior to the new one so that what went into the new tank had an established colony of bacteria.

[Amstar]

my plan:

have the 125 gallon sump set up with already existing live sand and macro-algae (water in it, running, with heaters and power-heads for at least a month/month and half) 

have a 55 gallon with live rock and water from the 75 gallon in it, for a month and half two months.

when the move happens (it will be all new substrate in the main tank)  I will move as much water from the 75 gallon along with all of the live rock, water from the 55 gallon as well as the live rock in there and everything placed in the main tank right away.

the rest of the water will be filled with new ro/di saltwater to top off the main tank.


I will have almost 200 pounds of live rock that has been in a reef tank for almost 6 years to help along the process in the 150 once its up and going

[UD Flyer]

It sounds like you have all bases covered. The only concern I would have is the water in the 125 sump and the 55 are not going to be the exact same. I would introduce to two tanks water slowly, by slowly I mean over a course of a day or several hours. I would not mix them up right away like freshly made salt water for water changes.

I know whether to keep your old sand or use new in a new tank is up for debate with many people have positive results on both sides. But personally I like adding new sand and seeding it like Micki suggested. I just moved tanks and used all new sand and have yet to have a problem or spike.

Overall I don't see a problem with what youre going to do, you may get a small spike but nothing catastrophic. 

[UDJustin]

most of your bacterial you are wanting to save will not be in the water column itself, like they have stated earlier it is all over the things in your tank, the idea with using old water for a new tank is more of the parameters like ph, Ca, etc... would be all the same making it a little less stressful on the livestock.

[Amstar]

that is what I am trying to do.  reduce the "shock" of the move on my corals.  I need to do it pretty quick (do not have enough heaters for the various totes that things will be put in.  the basement gets pretty cold in the winter

[micki]

I put all new sand in my main tank and just used 2 stockings with 1 cup in each of the old sand.  It's ok to spread it out the way you plan on but really I don't think it's necessary.  As I said I did it all in the same day and had no problems at all.  I spent a lot of time researching this out and talking with Melev.  I was more than comfortable to make the move in one day. 

[Kaylyn]

It seems like you have all the areas where I would be concerned covered. A lot of material transfering and a lot of well cured material should eliminate the cycle. Reuse of water should reduce and/or eliminate any osmotic shock. I cannot think of any other precautions I would take. Best of luck on the move. BTW I am envious of a setup you describe

[Amstar]

I can not wait to get it up and going.  This time I am buying, and doing things right.  the right electrical work, the right stand, the right lights, sump, reactors, skimmer, etc.  I have been asking alot of questions since August when I first got this tank.

[Kaylyn]

Can I ask what the full system composition is? Sounds like you have and are still researching things carefully

[rayviv]

this is a topic I was getting ready to start. good feedback. I'm setting up a new 180 dream tank that NDR (MR DODD) has been getting ready for me. not sure wether to just take everything out of 90gal and put in 180 and add rodi water or try to save established water in quanity needed.the 90 has only been up for 12 weeks but quality has been good.no alge blooms and only a few live stuffs. I'll be posting the 90 in a few days. good buy for Christmas. my 90  tank looks so nice i almost dont want to take it down.will post pic's.
                rayviv,

[Amstar]

tank:

150 gallon RR tank.  72" x 18" x 29"  (I think that the right measurements)

Sump:
125 gallon tank
macro-algae
mangroves
Power-compact lighting
not sure exactly how I am going to drill it (the places for all of the holes yet)

stand
DIY stand stands 41" tall (im 6'3" so I like to look into a tank with out having to stoop down)

Protien skimmer:
Beckette skimmer with an external pump (still searching on what I am going to use.  Needs to be at least 1100 gph for the skimmer)

Reactors:
Dual stage reactor for GFO and Carbon from Bulk-reef supply (run by a maxi jet 1200)
want to get a calcium and kalkwasser soon

Pumps:
Reeflo snapper pump for return from the sump
Wave-master pro with 4 maxi-jet 1200's (still trying to decide if I want to have two maxi-jet 1200's modified at each end of the tank not on the wave-master pro, the have 4 maxi jet 900's on the wave-master)  lots of water flow

Lighting:
looking at 3 250 watt Ice-cap ballasts  running 3 lumenarc minis

not sure how I am going to do the actinic lighting (VHO's (which I have) or T-5's)

moonlight kit that is mounted on the lumenarcs which uses the reflector to shine the moon-light down into the tank


water chaning/top off:

7 gallon auto top off with a kent float valve

(2) 32 gallon brute trashcans.  Shelving system so that the top brute trashcan is feed by my RO/DI with a kent float valve.  near the top of the trash-can I will have a valve that allows water to drain (into the drain in the floor) in case the float valve fails. a series of plumbing that runs the ro/di water down to the lower brute trash-can which will be saltwater storage/mixing can.  this then will have a mag 5 that will feed the mixed saltwater to the sump for quick water changes (the sump will be drilled so that I have a ball valve that has pvc going to the drain in the floor) this will allow quick water changes (open the ball valve the sump starts to drain, shut the ball valve. turn the valve from the brute, and kick on the the mag 5.  BINGO 30 gallon water change in under 10 minutes.

thats just the just of the system at this point

[apelaston]

sounds great amstar! great planning w everything !

[Amstar]

honestly its the dumb little things that are driving me crazy.  what to do with the back-ground of the tank?  how am I going to get all of my equipment plugged into the "outlet board" that I had made (i have an idea how I am going to do this)

what am I going to stock?  do I need more live rock?  ohh the problems to have.  honestly I asked alot of questions (thanks everyone for helping) and so far I am enjoying trying to do alot of this on my own from suggestions on various websites.  Im not much of DIY guy but so far it hasnt been to bad. ive only had to re-build my entire stand, and I have cracked 2 55 gallon tanks that were going to be my sump. 

live and learn

[lazylivin]

HVAC
Chemistry
Carpentry
Electrical
Pluming
Creative/Artistic

With this hobby we almost have to be a jack of all trades or very wealthy where we can pay to have the professionals do it.

[verper]

HVAC
Chemistry
Carpentry
Electrical
Pluming
Creative/Artistic

With this hobby we almost have to be a jack of all trades or very wealthy where we can pay to have the professionals do it.

How true!

[apelaston]

Amen to that! except this Jill dont know Jack bout most of those trades bsides chemistry so i still have to pay people!

[verper]