LED LIghting

[Neogenesis]

Hey everyone,

I was curious how many on this forum are running LED's for their main lighting over their tanks?  Are they Premade LED's, DIY LED's, Halides.....etc etc etc or even a hybrid system.   I was just curious to see how many have made the jump and their feeling about them.

[Neogenesis]

I'll start off.....I'm using all DIY LED's, I jumped on the technology very early and am glad that I did.  Maybe I had cruddy fixtures for my Halides, but I never really liked them.  Right now I've got 82 LED's over my 180g, but that will soon be upgraded to 96.  I'm also using LED's over my frag tank as well as the nem grow out tank, which I really don't have much in right now.

I'm loving the lights, electricity savings, and no changes in spectrum or bulb changes.  It's Win Win Win for me.

[Todd W.]

Which tank?  Some of us have multiple 

[Ashlar]

I have a tall tank, I haven't seen an LED fixture or DIY combo that can reproduce my 10kK 250w DE MH in color, penetration, and PAR (and doesn't look like a disco ball).

When someone I trust (like Sanjay Joshi) runs tests and finds a light they can endorse as comparable, I might start taking it seriously.

[ah388]

I'm running the AI Sol Blue over my 34gal and loving it, highly customizable.

[Neogenesis]

I have a tall tank, I haven't seen an LED fixture or DIY combo that can reproduce my 10kK 250w DE MH in color, penetration, and PAR (and doesn't look like a disco ball).

When someone I trust (like Sanjay Joshi) runs tests and finds a light they can endorse as comparable, I might start taking it seriously.

I believe he just made a presentation at MACNA about LED's and their viability.  I could be wrong though.  175g tank, how tall is it?

[Ashlar]

Mine's 30" tall.

I spoke with him at length the last time our club had him in for a presentation (this past summer). He said that the best LEDs at the moment have the comparability of a 150w MH, considering all factors.

[HUNGER]

i run 3 MH and 48 blue leds for supplmet

[CoralBeauties]

I have 3 diy led heat sinks over my 180 gallon and haven't regretted them one bit.  I did some par testing on mine against a 10k 250w bulb and they were almost identical.  I have 35 leds on each sink and the bulb I tested against wasnt that old.  What I hated most about the halides was every 6 months trying to research and hopefully pick out the bulb that was just right in color, didnt lose it in a few months and the ongoing cost of replacement.  Granted the leds were expensive but should pay for themselves.  Probably if I was setting up a new halide system the leds wouldnt cost all that much more given they are a diy unit.
Jeff

[kattz]

I've got DIY LED's over my tank - 80 LED's over my 90g and adding another 40 for a 14000K 400W ability.  I have excellent LPS and SPS coral growth.  LED's are the best way to go right now, and DIY is the best way to go in LED if you have the most miniscule of technical skills.

And I'm sorry, but Sanjay is a) too full of himself, and b) not the LED expert that he thinks he is.  My opinion as an engineer who has also built 1/8th-wave computer-driven telescopes from scratch.  I admit that I'm not an EE like Wes, but I've been around optics and light for a very long time.  I'm not saying that I'm better, just that I found his article in Coral Mag to be a huge disappointment.

And let me add that without jjoos and wall_tank's inspiration, I'd have never made the leap to LED's.

Kev

[Ashlar]

Ehn.. if you have a critique of his methodology, I'm sure he'd be happy to address it. He doesn't claim to be a guru, and is always open to questions and criticism.

He compares apples to apples. Those detractors who say, "But this is different..." are begging a logical fallacy. If a given lighting solution doesn't have the same characteristics, it just doesn't. There's no, "Yes, but.." about it.

Either it provides the same amount of PAR to the same depth or it doesn't. Either it provides the same amount of visible spectrum to the same depth or it doesn't.

*shrug*

[Blazinreef]

Ive got 4 AI Sol blues over my 180, and working on some green and red supplementation.

[kattz]

Ashlar, I was just very disappointed with the entire Coral issue that month.  He's not a stupid guy, I'm just a little touchy right now, as I'm buried in college homework, and my shoulder from this rotator cuff surgery is just heinously painful.  Sorry if I was a little brash.

[Ashlar]

No worries. No harm, no foul.

[Wall_Tank]

When someone I trust (like Sanjay Joshi) runs tests and finds a light they can endorse as comparable, I might start taking it seriously.

There is just too many very good success cases to say it is not comparable when it comes to growing coral.   So whatever Sanjay is measuring is not the only thing that defines success of a tank.
- Is it different light? Yes.
- Disco Balls.??  Sure there can be some separation of LED colors, but if done right, it is not noticeable unless you look for it.
- Would I rip out a MH system that is running over a successful tank?  No.
- Is there still some risk that they won't last as long as advertised?  Yes.  I have seen many folks overdrive or under cool LED's

[Ashlar]

Oh no doubt they can grow coral. When I say 'comparable', I mainly mean close to the same PAR at the same depth. That way you wouldn't have to move your corals up in the tank, if you were switching from MH lighting.

From what testing I've seen, the 'comparability' with metal halide stops at about 20-24". Below that point, the PAR seems to drop off- unless you get some narrow optics, which looks just plain silly to me.

And that's not even touching esthetics. I don't have to get out a flashlight to look into some of the shaded areas at the bottom of my tank. I haven't seen a fixture or DIY combination that begins to be able to accomplish that.

[Neogenesis]

I can say I'm easily getting through 24" of water with 65 degree optics, and those are older Cree XRE's. That is what my current carpet nem is living under, as well as SPS.   I'm moving away from them, going all XPG, XPE under 80  degree optics.  The only place I find I have problems is getting light through the 1/2" glass center brace.  I'm still tweaking my colors as when I built them I was still in the cool white/blue thought process.  Warm whites definitely help even out the spectrum, and I plan to test other colors as well.  It's not perfect yet, but I'm getting it where I like it.

[Wall_Tank]

From what testing I've seen, the 'comparability' with metal halide stops at about 20-24". Below that point, the PAR seems to drop off- unless you get some narrow optics, which looks just plain silly to me.

And that's not even touching esthetics. I don't have to get out a flashlight to look into some of the shaded areas at the bottom of my tank. I haven't seen a fixture or DIY combination that begins to be able to accomplish that.

I can only speak to 24" tanks, I can asure you that a 3w Cree system will out perform a 250W MH system in terms of light penetration.    That is what I used to run and it wasn't even close comparison.     I run a few 60 degree optics in the front row where it has the deepest to penetrate, and 80 deg optics everywhere else.   You can't see any spot lighting.   In fact with 140 points of light over my 180gal tank, there is much more even lighting than 3 MH bulbs.

Not sure what the LED crowd is like in Texas, but there are a good number of us up here running large SPS tanks on 100% LED.

[Ashlar]

We've got a few folks starting up businesses doing LED lights, and we have a couple of fish stores that get the 'latest and greatest'. I borrowed a couple of them at different times (one ecotech, one semi-pro from a guy who's trying to start a business.) Neither lit up the bottom of my 30" tank like the 250w MH. Both produced pinpoints of different colored light that were clearly visible.

eta: I should add, I'd also require a fixture that I can mount at the same height as my existing lights (6-7"). I don't want to be moving the lights every night just to feed or work in the tank.

[Neogenesis]

Sounds like not enough LED's and the optics were too tight.  I'm guessing that to get the amount of light you want, your going to have to DIY it, which is the great thing about LED's.  It's so easy to do.

[kattz]

Ashlar, take a look at my DIY LED's in the DIY section.  I have more LED's now and more PAR, and the tank doesn't even look like that anymore, but you'll get the idea.  The Ecotech lights are too narrowly focused and not enough optics to give good, coherent light.  Nicest concept I've seen with wireless control, but the lighting manufacturers that are into the cloudy day/storm thing are looking at aesthetics and not at practical usage.  Wall_Tank has about the LED equiv of 3 300-400w MH's above his tank, and it looks really great!

Also, his and my LED arrays are 15 or more inches above the water.

[Mussin]

Interesting read, Im in the process of planning a 75G mix set-up, fish and softies.  I am set on going LED's if they can get the job done,  They DIY looks like the best way to go but im not sure if I would want to tackle it.  How much would a 48" fixture run anyhow (DIY)?


Jeremy

[kattz]

I was replying to a PM from ReefPete 4 times tonight, but I keep having a computer BSOD; looks like the mobo is on it's way out.  Not a cheap one, either!

My reply to him was on the same topic.  Fish and softies don't require the type of light that the SPS's do.  I'd do two 16" X the widest heatsinks you can get for future expandability.  then, I'd use 24 LED's on a side, probably 2-4 warm whites, 2-4 cyan, 8-10 cool whites, and 8-10 royal blues per side.  4 Meanwell 60D-48's, 2 for the warm whites and the cool whites, one side per controller, and ditto for the royal blues and the cyans.  If you wanted to really add some color and balance to the tank, I'd add 2 greens, 2 Luxdrive reds (Wall_Tank, input on those reds you were showing me?) per side, all on one 30D-27 driver.  I'd use 70 deg optics on the cool whites and the royal blues, and 80 degree optics on everything else.

With a discount code, you could get the hardware from LED Reef Lights for probably around $350-400, and then you need to adapt your canopy or build one.

[Neogenesis]

I hated the reds when I had them in my setup.  They lasted a week and I ripped them out.  I'll use more Warm White before I put red in.  It's just to strong and overpowering.

[CoralBeauties]

Your price for the 48in would depend totally on how many leds you would want to install on the heat sink.  Check several of the web sites mentioned.  Many of the sites give package pricing.
  I dont notice any spotlighting on my system.  Actually the only way I can even tell I have 2 different colors of leds is where the individual led color will come through a hole in my rock work and illuminate a spot in my open areas under the rocks.  I do supplement my lighting with 2 HO t-5 bulbs (blue+).  I feel it gives things alittle bit of extra punch and softens the overall look of the tank.  You will tend to get some shadowing with the leds which the t-5s also help with. 
  I dont have as many leds on my 180 as walltank but I can testify that my corals gained alot more color after I switched over.