Craigslist Co2

[cyberwollf]

Good point on the controller Todd/chris I think I'll focus my attention on getting a solenoid and cheap needle Valve. So that still adds up to $50 solenoid and $40 for pH probe! But I guess it will be a ~$600 value when up and running... That just means I have to make 2 controllers so I can offset my cost ok I guess I'm going to have to break down and goto "the shack" tomorrow lol

[TechGuy]

Good point on the controller Todd/chris I think I'll focus my attention on getting a solenoid and cheap needle Valve. So that still adds up to $50 solenoid and $40 for pH probe! But I guess it will be a ~$600 value when up and running... That just means I have to make 2 controllers so I can offset my cost ok I guess I'm going to have to break down and goto "the shack" tomorrow lol

Your pick, I was raised as Todd, but my name is Chris! Quality needle valves lol. Trust me on this, I have the same one lol. I thought it would help, but no, my effluent was at 4.9 for some time. Yeah, bad valve.

And when you have built a probe, call me, still waiting for your info via e-mail

[HUNGER]

Truer words never spoken lol. 

 :'( Come on, Why yall got to shoot down all my genius (cheap) ideas..... Man if Im spending $20 on a needle valve and $50 on a solenoid, I Mine as well buy this: http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Instruments-Solenoid-Regulator-Counter/dp/B001DTNWF2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1283308557&sr=8-2

Man.... $$$$ i thought I did good by getting a hell of a deal on regluator and bottle....

thats the one i got

[Wall_Tank]

:'( Come on, Why yall got to shoot down all my genius (cheap) ideas..... Man if Im spending $20 on a needle valve and $50 on a solenoid, I Mine as well buy this: http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Instruments-Solenoid-Regulator-Counter/dp/B001DTNWF2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1283308557&sr=8-2

Man.... $$$$ i thought I did good by getting a hell of a deal on regluator and bottle....

Since your cheapness is obviously getting the better of you, this is supposed to be the cats meow.   This takes care of everything for you
http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2.htm

[chromiumlux]

That is the cats meow fellas!! I have a friend that has this and it is nice and precise!!

[Midwest Express]

As long as you don't want LCD display, this looks like a nice setup.  Prob what I will run with eventually.

[cyberwollf]

Since your cheapness is obviously getting the better of you, this is supposed to be the cats meow.   This takes care of everything for you
http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2.htm

Oh yea  I was talking to the the guys at Marine Solutions about the one they were running awhile back.  They were really happy with it.  BUT  $150 is more than $40 solenoid and $30 pH probe lol (or $80 reg/solenoid/needle and $40 probe)

Would more folks prefer pH contoller/solenoid control or Electronic BPM?

That is pretty slick, As long as you keep the same bubble rate you pH in reactor should be pretty stable, as long as your feed pump flow doesnt change

[cyberwollf]

Cost compare:

Milwaukee Reg/sole/needle: $80 + Ph Probe: $40 + pH controller $100 (DIY $40)=

Electroinc reg = $200 ($150 is you already have a reg)

Soo..... Cost is about equal.   Although you still would need some sort of pH test to dial in the electronic one.  You are shooting for ~6.3 inside the reactor right? Is the output after the degassing chamber still at 6.3 when it enters the tank? Doesnt that drive pH down pretty low?

[Midwest Express]

Cost compare:

Milwaukee Reg/sole/needle: $80 + Ph Probe: $40 + pH controller $100 (DIY $40)=

Electroinc reg = $200 ($150 is you already have a reg)

Soo..... Cost is about equal.   Although you still would need some sort of pH test to dial in the electronic one.  You are shooting for ~6.3 inside the reactor right? Is the output after the degassing chamber still at 6.3 when it enters the tank? Doesnt that drive pH down pretty low?

I am loving this discussion.  It is almost like sitting in a class for Ca reactors.  Keep the info coming!

[jeremyt]

I keep my reactor PH at 6.5

[TechGuy]

Cost compare:

Milwaukee Reg/sole/needle: $80 + Ph Probe: $40 + pH controller $100 (DIY $40)=

Electroinc reg = $200 ($150 is you already have a reg)

Soo..... Cost is about equal.   Although you still would need some sort of pH test to dial in the electronic one.  You are shooting for ~6.3 inside the reactor right? Is the output after the degassing chamber still at 6.3 when it enters the tank? Doesnt that drive pH down pretty low?

Controller is the best way to go. You can use the fancy electronic bubble counters, but you still end up babysitting them, and making sure your effluent ph is spot on. Plus as the media level changes, a bubble counter will be using too much CO2 for your media volume. Then your adding to much alk and ca. Defeats the purpose of the stability of a reactor.

I broke down and ordered a Controller Wes.

[cyberwollf]

Controller is the best way to go. You can use the fancy electronic bubble counters, but you still end up babysitting them, and making sure your effluent ph is spot on. Plus as the media level changes, a bubble counter will be using too much CO2 for your media volume. Then your adding to much alk and ca. Defeats the purpose of the stability of a reactor.

I broke down and ordered a Controller Wes.

That was my same thoughts on the electroinic one.  It really helps if you are running open loop, but will still require adjustment AND you will have to buy some kind of pH tests for effluent anyways. How much was the controller?  Sorry for not getting that email to you on the pH ciruit.  Im actually going to pick up a finished board from JD today to start testing.

[TechGuy]

That was my same thoughts on the electroinic one.  It really helps if you are running open loop, but will still require adjustment AND you will have to buy some kind of pH tests for effluent anyways. How much was the controller?  Sorry for not getting that email to you on the pH ciruit.  Im actually going to pick up a finished board from JD today to start testing.

No biggie. Got it for $83 new

[chromiumlux]

I am confused here. I will soon be looking into a reactor. What good is a regulator and reactor if you have to keep adjusting it? I have seen the electronic counter. You set and go. Yes, you will adjust your bubble rate to fit the needs of your reactor, but you all have me confused about this. Sounds like you all are having issues with the do it yourself equipment in order to save a dollar. Maybe I am wrong, but this is a confusing discussion here. Can someone please elaborate from start to finish how a CA reactor is supposed to work?

[TechGuy]

I am confused here. I will soon be looking into a reactor. What good is a regulator and reactor if you have to keep adjusting it? I have seen the electronic counter. You set and go. Yes, you will adjust your bubble rate to fit the needs of your reactor, but you all have me confused about this. Sounds like you all are having issues with the do it yourself equipment in order to save a dollar. Maybe I am wrong, but this is a confusing discussion here. Can someone please elaborate from start to finish how a CA reactor is supposed to work?

I'm fairly certain you understand very well how a reactor works

Just because an electronic counter works for him doesn't mean its the best way to do it. I don't believe he has tested his ALK/CA/PH daily to make sure.

You are right, and his post is 100% correct. Go out, read, research, and draw your own conclusion based on the experiences of other reef keepers. And my conclusion is that all the big guys, smarter and more experienced than most, believe a controller is the best way to go, and a solenoid is required for safety.

Maybe my logic is flawed, and your right. I don't have alot of experience with reactors in general. But it seems to me that if you alway inject a set amount of CO2. As the media is used, your CO2 (carbonic acid in water) isn't being nuetralized, eating media faster, and lowering your tank PH.

DIY can be a pain, but its fun and yes much cheaper.

So in case you really didn't knowhow it all works. Some light reading for you Andy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_reactor
http://www.melevsreef.com/calcium_reactor.html
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/sh/feature/index.php
http://reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2425220

[chromiumlux]

True, I have no experience with reactors. Who is he and him? I stated that I am looking into a reactor for myself. Yeah, I do have some book knowledge of how a reactor works and was merely asking for more information. I know that DIY is fun and all, but you are talking about a fragile ecosystem here that depends on your equipment to perform properly. As a matter of course, Even the top dollar equipment can fail or have flaws. I have seen the results of do it yourself projects gone bad and will always question how things work. You of all reefers should know this Todd.

[TechGuy]

True, I have no experience with reactors. Who is he and him? I stated that I am looking into a reactor for myself. Yeah, I do have some book knowledge of how a reactor works and was merely asking for more information. I know that DIY is fun and all, but you are talking about a fragile ecosystem here that depends on your equipment to perform properly. As a matter of course, Even the top dollar equipment can fail or have flaws. I have seen the results of do it yourself projects gone bad and will always question how things work. You of all reefers should know this Todd.

He and him is you friend mentioned prior I havn't had too many big failures yet...yet lol.

But back on topic! I want to see Wes's new reactor up and running. Sadly he is off to "The Shack" buying some expensive timers lol.

[HUNGER]

i seen wes reator and it does look sweet

[Wall_Tank]

A controller is the way to go and not play with.   The only thing I do is to check the effluent for proper flow rate. 

There are a few questions about that I'll try to answer....  I would not consider myself an expert, but I've had a reactor for 5+ years, and suffered most of the problems.

1)  Chamber ph.  I run 6.5-6.6.   I run a single stage reactor, so the effluent ph is just about the same.   Some run a second stage on their reactor.  This has more media in this stage, with no more additional CO2, so the ph rises before getting back to the tank.

2)  Media usage:  Media usage is dictated by one thing.  Ca/Alk load in the aquarium.  CO2 is added to drive the tank water acidic, this changes saturation point of CA/Alk in the water, media is dissolved into the water at some level of equilibrium based on the ph of the water.   The amount of media in the reactor and the size of the reactor is important to be sure there is enough contact time to get the Ca/Alk to equilibrium.    I don't think you can have too much media, however you are pumping tank water through the media, you do need to keep the reactor clean.

3) CO2 usage: Purely based on effluent rate and the ph your trying to maintain in the reactor.

So here is my reasoning for some of my parameters
1) Very Low effluent rate:  Ensures that if my CO2 valve goes crazy, I don't let a crazy amount of low PH water into my tank
2) To compensate for the low effluent rate, I control the reactor ph at 6.5
3) I monitor my tank ALK (Maybe twice a month), if I need to adjust my tank ALK, I just adjust the effluent rate.
4) Occasionally check your probe calibration, this helps to be sure your stable.

[cyberwollf]

True, I have no experience with reactors. Who is he and him? I stated that I am looking into a reactor for myself. Yeah, I do have some book knowledge of how a reactor works and was merely asking for more information. I know that DIY is fun and all, but you are talking about a fragile ecosystem here that depends on your equipment to perform properly. As a matter of course, Even the top dollar equipment can fail or have flaws. I have seen the results of do it yourself projects gone bad and will always question how things work. You of all reefers should know this Todd.

I have to agree that you do not see DIY with the same intrested that several of us geeks do yes it is usually cheaper to build, but it take considerable more time and effort. But it keeps you electronic/design/fun/inspiration in the hobby. I also think you underestimate everyones dedication to caretaking. I would NEVER put anything incharge of my tank parameters that I hadn't fully tested and didn't believe worked as well as COTS equipment. 

As far as the electronic bubble counter. Yes it's one way to do it, but what if your flowrate in reactor changes? What if you feed pump dies/media begins being consumed/line slightly clogged. A very precise bubble counter isn't going to be able to detect this and will continue to put out co2 and drive pH much lower. And you would need a pH tester to dial it in anyways.

So, I think it's still prefered to have it run on feedback control loop where pH is actually known and adjusted if something goes weird. Otherwise you are still fiddling with the electronic solenoid every now and then, certainly much better than just open loop relying on a needle valve

So, yes I'm cheap but DIY is certainly about more than saving money AND I would put anything I build up against COTS any day of the week!

[HUNGER]

So, yes I'm cheap but DIY is certainly about more than saving money AND I would put anything I build up against COTS any day of the week!

we r all cheap in one way or the other but u love to bulid thing and u have fun doing it


and when i hook up my reator  i would love you Wall_Tank to come over and give me a hand and doing it right will buy beer and food for u

[TechGuy]

1)  Chamber ph.  I run 6.5-6.6.   I run a single stage reactor, so the effluent ph is just about the same.   Some run a second stage on their reactor.  This has more media in this stage, with no more additional CO2, so the ph rises before getting back to the tank.

So having a second chamber, I most definitely should tap and mount my probe in the first chamber? That was my plan, but I think you clarified it for me pretty well

And Wes, very well said man.

[cyberwollf]

So having a second chamber, I most definitely should tap and mount my probe in the first chamber? That was my plan, but I think you clarified it for me pretty well

And Wes, very well said man.

So, is the output pH higher if you have a degassing chamber? So you would have to put the probe in the first chamber? Hmm... I have seen people just mount probe in a cup that effluent overflows into the sump, can you still do that if you have a 2nd degassing chamber?

[chromiumlux]

Thanks Wall tank for sharing your experience.

[Wall_Tank]

So, is the output pH higher if you have a degassing chamber? So you would have to put the probe in the first chamber? Hmm... I have seen people just mount probe in a cup that effluent overflows into the sump, can you still do that if you have a 2nd degassing chamber?

Yes, put the probe in the 1st chamber.    The only benefit of the second chamber is to raise the ph.  If your going to measure the effluent PH in a cup in the sump, then the second chamber really has no value.   Unless for some reason you have a very small reactor, and your trying to add media volume.