Dosing Increase

[lazylivin]

I used to dose in a 24 hour period a total of 231ml per day of Alk and Ca. Dosing pumps ran 4x per day. I changed dosing schedule to 24x per day. Since, I have had to increase the total amount dosed to 370ML per day to maintain the same Alk & Ca levels.

Not sure why, any ideas?

[Ashlar]

Are you actually dosing that amount, or are is that just the calculation?

Any chance you could be getting air in the dosing lines, which would have to be overcome every time the doser kicks on/off, which would account for *appearing* to use more?

[lazylivin]

It is a calculation. They are BRS dosers that dose aprox 1.1ml per minute.
Previous total dosing time was 210 minutes. New dosing time is 336 minutes
That was excellent idea of air in the lines and it would definitely have accounted for the change. However in this case these type of peristaltic pumps don't allow that to occur.

[Ashlar]

I had a similar situation with a peristaltic pump when the rubber bit that goes around the rotating head is a bit loose / long / not tight enough to keep a good seal.

The way to be sure would be to put a cup under the tubing, open to the air, if that's the way it sits in your sump, and measure like 1/2 a day of cyclic dosing, see if it matches the calculation.

Then you could work up your own 'calibration' for want of a better term, and correct as necessary to make sure you dose the amount you need.

[lazylivin]

Total time it is on now in comparison with total time it was on before is what is throwing me off. When I went from dosing 4x per day to dosing 24x per day the length of time the pump was on was the same. I just noticed my PH was going down a little more each day. Testing Alk/Ca confirmed that less was going in than was being consumed. It is now flat at 336 minutes.

[Ashlar]

Right, but if some air is creeping up the line when the pump is off, that is happening 24x a day now, instead of 4x a day.. in other words, the pump has to fill that section of tubing that now has air in it 24 times instead of the 4 times it had to do the same thing before.

Think of it like walking up a hill wearing roller skates.. you go up at 20 feet per minute, but when you stop, you fall back 5 feet. If you stop a lot, you'll slide back more; if you go uphill continuously for longer, less slippage.

[lazylivin]

Okay I will double check it right before it gets ready to start to see if that is occuring.

[chromiumlux]

This is a good topic. Thanks for sharing. I am getting ready to hook up my Vertex Libra doser. I was wondering where to mount it so that the lines are not a great distance from the sump. This may have helped me with the decision to keep the output lines as short as possible. Pretty slick unit from what I am reading. It has an air purge cycle that can be ran with the touch screen for start up and maintaining a full line. Can dose down to .5ml if needed. I think that smaller doses throughout the day would be more beneficial as it would keep params more stable. The fun part will be the calculations....lol. Thanks! Great topic.

[lazylivin]

Man it seems to be running through a ton of chemicals. I ran out again and didn't notice until my PH alarm went off this morning. It drops like a rock when I run out. Last time this happened around Christmas I didn't catch it for two days and I lost a few corals. Fortunately it looks like it ran out yesterday as best I can tell from the apex graph. If it caused any damage it won't be apparent for a couple weeks.



I checked and didn't see any air getting into lines and when dosing pump turns on it begins dripping fluid immediately. Just to be sure I will see how long this gallon lasts. I just filled it this morning. A gallon is 3785ml so this should last no more than morning of May 20th if I am truly using 373ml per day. Which is a ton more then it used to when it was dosing just 4x per day apposed to 24x per day

If anyone was wondering when I discovered this morning I poured in 100 ml directly to sump and then just refilled the jug and let normal dosing bring it back to where it should be which may take a few days.

[Wall_Tank]

You just need to give me a few of those corals......that will cut your demand

Can you post your dosing code?

[lazylivin]

Here ya go Paul

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
OSC 030:00/014:00/016:00 Then ON
If S_pH > 08.40 Then OFF

[Wall_Tank]

Well I agree with your math...   and your next step.  I have a 100ml graduated cylinder if you wanted to do a shorter dose output test.   Otherwise your gallon test is good too

[Ashlar]

Any volume test would need to cover multiple cycles, especially if there is something about breaking it up into smaller chunks that results in smaller overall doses.

ie, measure 5 cycles and see if you get 77ml (370 / 24 * 5) or 48ml (231 / 24 * 5) or something in between. A 100ml graduated cylinder should cover as many as 6 doses, I would think.

[Bluewater]

Sorry About The Caps Phone Is Being Bumb. Another Thought Could Be, Maybe Ther Coral Is Like People If We Eat Small Amounts More Times A Day It Boosts Matabalism Maybe The Corals AreUsing More A Day Since They Are Getting Small Amounts And Using It Quicker. Just A Thought.

[lazylivin]

That may be it Bluewater.

Unfortunately most corals lost color and a bit of RTN on a few from the alk drop. Hopefully I have seen the last of it. definitely need to get larger dosing containers and install float switch to alarm when they get close to running out. This is the third time it has happened.

The gallon has a little over a third left so I doubt it will make it to the 20th but we shall see. I already know however that no air is getting in the lines from watching it turn on several times over the past week.

[Twizted1]

Could your probes be outa wack? Just wanding if you have checked to be sure all equipment if functioning as it should? Not that I understand anything your saying? lol

[Wall_Tank]

In his setup (and mine) The pH probe is just an indicator.  The Ca and Alk are checked with standard test kits.

[Twizted1]

In his setup (and mine) The pH probe is just an indicator.  The Ca and Alk are checked with standard test kits.

Gotcha.

[Ashlar]

Seems bizarre that the division would increase the dose like that. I wonder how much error is built into the pumps, for that to happen.

[lazylivin]

It is bizarre. I don't get it.

[Bluewater]

When Dosing More Also Keep An Eye On Your Salinity Cause It Will Go Up And Cause Problems.

[Steve]

Not sure why all that is happening, but unless my corals were being negatively impacted by the 4 time a day dosing, I would go back to it. 1-just to see if the level dropped back and if it did 2- save money.

[lazylivin]

i agree because haven't noticed any extra growth.

[lazylivin]

Gallon jug empty this morning

[Wall_Tank]

Are you sure of your timer settings for your old wall timer?

I guess I would keep the same dose, just cut the dose frequency in half.   Then see if your Alk starts to rise.

[lazylivin]

Well now I feel dumb. I double checked the old timer setting and their was another 60 and 30 min cycle buried on number 14 and 15 cycle schedule.

[Wall_Tank]

At least the mystery is solved.   Now to get your larger jugs and float switches hooked up.

[Steve]

Well now I feel dumb.

Oh Yeah, I can relate, having a generator power switch moment right now. Glad you got it solved Brian.

[Ashlar]

Doh! I was going to put BRS pumps on my 'never buy- crap!' list.