29 gallon build

[Finny]

I am starting up a 29g high FOWLR that will hopefully go reef one day.  This is my first attempt at SW!  I'm running 2 Koralia nanos, a 100 W heater, stock LED light (which will be off for cycle), and I have a digital thermometer and a hydrometer.  I have 40 lbs Fiji Pink LS and I just today got 15 lbs of cured Manado LR from Premium Aquatics.  I plan to get an uncooked shimp and toss in there to help with the cycle.  I have the liquid API test kits to monitor my params.  My super tentative stock list is 2 ocellaris clowns and 1 firefish plus some inverts TBD.

Got some initial questions I haven't got much help at a larger fish forum I belong to.  Very helpful for FW, but less active for SW apparently!

I have been told I do not need a sump or a skimmer for a tank this size with my understocking goal.  Thoughts?

I do think I'm going to need more rock.  Is there anywhere local I can get dry rock?  Or should I just order some from PA?  Or even just order some more of the LR?

I have horrible white deposits in areas on the inside of my tank glass.  The tank has been up and running over the weekend, and the white stuff appeared...  Is it salt?  Best way to remove it?

Sorry for billions of questions!
Thank you!!!!

[Boonjob]

First, Hello and Welcome to Ohio Reef! Glad to have you on the boards!

So...

1. You dont NEED a sump/skimmer but they sure wont hurt if you used one, and there are no negatives if you can fit one into the budget and room you have to work with.

The sump will add extra volume to your tank... the more water you have in your system the more stable it is, takes longer for pollutions to build up. Plus it gives you room to put your tank accessories out of site, such as a heater,skimmer,reactor so on and so forth.

The skimmer is pretty useful, There isnt much of a reason to not want one, if you can afford and fit it in your space. The Skimmer will help keep your water params more stable, allowing for pollutants to build less quickly or not at all, without one, it would build quite fast.

2. I would suggest just a bit more Rock, you dont have to go 1 pound per gallon but i would get it closer to 20.. the more you have the better within moderation. Check our local sponsors for stock on the rock... If you are into mail order, Marco rocks has some good pricing on dry rock.

3. What kind of water did you use? Did you wash your sand before putting it in the tank? Did you mix the salt in the tank? has alot of the water evaporated?... It most likely is residue off the sand. Though it could be the water...  Once we know what it is we can determine how to remove it...

[Twizted1]

I did not use a skimmer on my tank for the first year. I now run one & wish I would have from the beginning. As far as water, did you use tap water? Rodi water? I also second the thought of a sump. Not a necessity, but helps a lot in hidding things and adding more volume. You could also just put rubble in the sump if you want a simpler look in the tank. That way you get your bio up without sacrificing the look you want. Just some thoughts.

[bbtm64]

floridaliverock.com has the best live rock I've ever seen anywhere. Tons of stuff on it. Overnight shipping is expensive but it reduces the amount of die off.

[Finny]

Wow!  Thanks for all the replies!

I did use tap water treated with Prime and I mixed the salt in the tank, since the tank was empty.  I read that it was okay as long as you have an empty tank.  For future water changes, I have buckets and a water pump and heater to mix it for 24 hrs.  I haven't had much evap, because I have kept the tank covered and light off.  I did have my specific gravity too high for the fist day or two and then I took some of the SW out and added treated tap until it came down into the "good range".  The water has been in the tank with the koralias and heater running since Friday evening, so it should be pretty well mixed and aerated, I hope! 

I did rinse the sand, but it still got super cloudy for the first 12 or so hours after putting it in.  It kicked up everywhere too at first.  It's a lot lighter and finer then the blasting sand I have in my FW tank!  I did use a paper towel to sort of wipe off the inside of the glass, which got some of the sand off, but this stuff is white and hard.  I didn't want to scrub with the paper towel because I didn't want paper bits coming off into the tank, so I quit.  It reminds me a lot of the hard deposit you get from evap at the top of a tank, but it's not at the top, it's in random areas kind of in the middle of the glass, almost in a horizontal linear pattern like evap deposit too, but it's definitely not from evap.  I'm hoping my new scrubber will come in tomorrow, but I have a feeling it may require a razor blade or something of that nature.  Not sure!

Maybe I should look for a skimmer after all.  I don't really have room for a sump at the moment, so it will have to be a HOB skimmer.

I think maybe if I get like 5 to 10 lbs of base rock, that would make it look better.  If I ever get the white crud off the glass, maybe I can try to post a picture to see what folks think? lol

Thanks again! 

[Travis8896]

Not sure if this is what you were thinking skimmer wise but hey if not owell lol
http://www.ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=16091.0

[Boonjob]

I would just use a razor blade for the white deposits.


You may want to consider more filtered water(Atleast RO, if not ro/di). You may end up with some nasty algae blooms with the tap water, Which may not bother you in a FOWLR(might even be beneficial to a degree, the algae that is), But if you go reef, it will be a job to fix if you have been using tap water for a long period.

[Finny]

I have heard that RO/DI water is better for SW.  I may look into getting a filter thingy to make my own.  It would be too much, I think, to have to go buy water every time I need to do a PWC.

I got a scraper and got most of the white crud off.  I'm going to give it a bit and see if it comes back.  I also threw a couple raw shrimp in the tank this morning. If it ever stops storming, I am going to head out and try to obtain some more rock.

I haven't seen any critters on my LR yet, but I hear it can take months.

I'm going to have to do more research on skimmers.  I hear that HOB skimmers are not the best, but some are better than others.  I don't want anything that's going to be noisy or cause spills.

[Boonjob]

I have a HOB Aqua C Ramora... I love it... It is a bit noisey, but you can make a baffle if you get an older one, the the new ones have a baffle that really help battle the spray noise... I run my Ramora on a 38 gal with a 25 gal sump. It just hangs off the sump.

Ro/Di is almost a neccessity IMO for any saltwater tank, even if it isnt a reef. You sure can get away with tap, but RO/DI will prevent alot of headaches sometimes.

[Finny]

I'm so excited! lol

I went to a local store that carries LR (not one of the sponsors here), but it was absolutely covered in giant aiptasias...  So I ended up getting 15 more lbs of the cured manado from PA.  I decided I liked the look of it so much, why not just get more of the same?  This time I spotted critters! lol.  Just a few tiny snails that may or may not be dead and one tiny feather duster (definitely not dead), but...I'm still super excited and hoping I spot a lot more as I go! 

It also had plenty of coralline and some other plant/macro algae red and green leafy looking tiny plant bits.  No clue what they are exactly.

I hope some of this stuff survives the cycling process! 

Edit:  At least some of the snails are not dead, as they have crawled away.  After doing some looking, I think they are checkerboard snails.  I tried getting some pictures, but my water is cloudy.  I will try again later.

I also tested my basic params last night: Ammonia - 0.5, trites - 0, trates - 0, pH - 8.  On my way! lol

[Finny]

I tested my parameters again today:

SG = 1.026
pH = 8
Ammonia = 4
NitITE = 2
NitRATE = 20
Ca = 480
KH = 21 dKH (or 375.9 ppm)
Phos = 2

Yay for trates! 

Should I pull out the shrimp carcasses now that my ammonia has reached 4 and I have trates and let the params settle themselves out?
My KH is awfully high...not sure about that one.  Because the tank is not even been cycling a week maybe?
My Phos is too high too, right?  probably need RO;DI afterall?  Or do you think it will be alright for now (ie no corals)?

Thank you!!

[Twizted1]

I would pull them out and let the tank do its things. 4 ppm ammonia is a spike, I don't think it has peaked yet. But all cycles are different. It may be at its peak. Just keep an eye on things.