DIY LEDs

[jd]

Last week, I thought to myself: "I don't have enought projects going on already, so lets order some LEDs."

I got 3 for $10 online with free shipping. These are the lower output Crees, binned at p4, which is much lower output than the q5's (about ~25%)

Currently, these are being driving at 700mA, 70% of it potential brightness. If this driver can remain as efficient as it is now, there is a large cost saving potential as the circuit costs $1 to drive 6 LEDs vs $20 for those same six.

The circuit


The setup


The current setting resistor


What that resistor would look like if I had the right one on hand


Emitter


Output

[stickboy_107]

WOW is that just the one?  They are bright at just 70% 

[jd]

WOW is that just the one?  They are bright at just 70% 

Yes, just one. at 70% of rated current. Not to mention that the Q5's are a further 20% brighter. Looking to just one of these is like looking into a 175W Halide, they are that bright. I just tested all three hooked up together but they are getting hot without a heatsink.

[bkvreef]

how would these compare to a metal halide?  would they work on a reef, if so what level (softie, lps, sps, etc).  Is the heat similar to mh or more like t-5?

[cyberwollf]

how would these compare to a metal halide?  would they work on a reef, if so what level (softie, lps, sps, etc).  Is the heat similar to mh or more like t-5?

depending on the amount of LEDs and optics used they can easily beat the PAR of a 400w MH. Very low heat output, but they still require a heatsink to prevent emitter overheating and damage.

[HUNGER]

now thats bright

[reefman]

This is one of the next form of Aquarium Lighting. There are several threads on RC about it and I believe we have a few people in the Dayton Area working on lighting their reef tanks with LEDs

[jd]

how would these compare to a metal halide?  would they work on a reef, if so what level (softie, lps, sps, etc).  Is the heat similar to mh or more like t-5?

Cyberwollf summed it up really well. One thing worth noting is that they don't project heat like halides, but the LEDs themselves are hot. All of their energy is in a very narrow spectrum so little infrared heat in transferred.

[rayk]

What is your power supply for this little project?  And what would it be for a go-live?

I'd be very interested in lighting two 2 foot by 2 foot sections with some LEDs.  With my new 180, I still only have one 400 W MH light, which will be placed over the middle section.  My current plan is to take my old Icecap 660 balast and run 2 sets of 2 foot VHOs over the outer sections, and extend my current 4 foot actinic VHOs to 6 foot.    But if I can accomplish the same thing with less power used, that would be best.

- Rayk

[jd]

I'm using a PC power supply that I've modified into a bench top supply. If you mean the cost of a prebuilt system, it might run $1000 or more. A DIY one for 2 2x2" panels might be around $500. Not bad considering two ballasts, refelctors and bulbs can run that easy.

[cyberwollf]

but if you consider only wanting to "spotlight" a few corals, you can use 30degree optics to get 400W MH PAR in smaller sections.  If you wanted a clam in an otherwise dimmly lit section for example.

I think you could spotlight a few spots in the tank for a few hundered.  If you just hit the tops of a few sections of rocks for SPS level PAR, your VHO might be able to support LPS and other stuff in the "nonspotlighted" areas.

This is one of the beauties of LED lighting.  Its hard for us to break the mindset of uniform PAR throughout a certain depth, but for the first time LEDs allows us to just put the PAR where we need it (and possibly save money if we are smart about it)

[jd]

I'm building a little LED prototype today to stick over some test corals. News at 11.

[chromiumlux]

I have a friend on another site that is building LED lighting for his reef. The tank is quite large and the first panel will have like 24 leds in it. there are some threads on other sites where people are already having success with led lighting.

[HUNGER]

but how many leds do u need to compite  with mh ?

[cyberwollf]

Depends on what area you need to light? You can play tricks like mixing optics to get full coverage and high PAR spotlights. That's the thing, you don't really want to compare LEDs to MH. It's more about deciding what you want to light. If you want total coverage and completly +300 PAR, it's pretty pricey

[lazylivin]

It would be neat to just have a couple strategically placed over specific high light corals such as a birds-nest that needs crazy par to stay pink.

Check this out. Pricey but what a great concept. http://premiumaquatics.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ledio

[HUNGER]

oOooOOo       ok

[cyberwollf]

21 watts of q5s can be diy'd for around $70

[lazylivin]

That is still pretty pricey but probably ideal in the long haul

[Wall_Tank]

You should get a cree and then burn it 24/7 and see how the light decay's overtime.

[cyberwollf]

You should get a cree and then burn it 24/7 and see how the light decay's overtime.

Their 50% point (or is it 75%) is at 50,000 hours.  So even 24/7 thats a few years lol

[Wall_Tank]

That is if you believe the data.

[cyberwollf]

That is if you believe the data.

I dont know if it is 50,000, But LEDs do retain brightness without degradation if not overdriven.  Im sure they came up with that from some analysis and HALT testing

[jd]

LED's have been around in one form or another for 100 years, there are some pretty set methods of testing them that are used. 11 years? Maybe not, with salt, water and humidity I would be surprised to see a fixture built now around in 2020. But I know they are more efficient, project less heat, and are wicked cool I plan on buying more and converting my desk lamp to use them. They create a nice white light. Uploading more pictures now.

[jd]

Should have PAR readings this weekend.

[jd]

There is a slight problem with the driver. Its does a poor job at being a current source. Instead of being set at 700mA, its varies with input voltage, something it shouldn't do. It just so happens to work out at 12V current draw is 700mA, but anything over there and the current jumps up. 

[cyberwollf]

There is a slight problem with the driver. Its does a poor job at being a current source. Instead of being set at 700mA, its varies with input voltage, something it shouldn't do. It just so happens to work out at 12V current draw is 700mA, but anything over there and the current jumps up. 

You got the circuit wrong then  I have used lm317 for constant current up to 2A i think.  If your input voltage is too low, that will drop your current, but if you raise the voltage above that level it shouldnt affect amps. 

Should have PAR readings this weekend.

If you are lucky

[chromiumlux]

One of these leds would be like a 400w mh only more focused like a spotlight. depends on which lens you get. a 4 something or other to focus it straight down instead of dispersing the light wavelength. can bleach corals fairly quick

[jd]

You got the circuit wrong then  I have used lm317 for constant current up to 2A i think.  If your input voltage is too low, that will drop your current, but if you raise the voltage above that level it shouldnt affect amps. 

*sigh*

I guess that is what I get for making a circuit at 2 am. Found the problem, will fix it tomorrow...

[jd]

One of these leds would be like a 400w mh only more focused like a spotlight. depends on which lens you get. a 4 something or other to focus it straight down instead of dispersing the light wavelength. can bleach corals fairly quick

Exactly! LEDs can be use to spotlight certain corals and areas without wasting power. Bleaching is an issue, as with an lighting upgrade.

My next large tank will likely have T5's to illuminate the whole tank, and LEDs to spotlight areas.

[cyberwollf]

My next large tank will likely have T5's to illuminate the whole tank, and LEDs to spotlight areas.

+1 hopefully the price will drop in the meantime

[jd]

Its getting there now, thankfully. Royal Blues are still expensive, but whites can he had for fairly cheap.

[jd]

And for the record, the pin-out of the LM317T is exactly opposite of what it should be. 

[HUNGER]

cant wait till they get a buck a piece than im in lol

[reefman]

From what I see the white and blues are the same price!

[cyberwollf]

From what I see the white and blues are the same price!

Yea, for white Q5's i have always seen them within $1 of price.

[rayk]

Okay, so how many do I need to light a 2 foot by 2 foot area of tank, but just good enough so it doesn't look 'dark'.  I just need some basic lighting for now on the sides, maybe equivalent to 2 VHO daylight bulbs.  I'll keep my corals in the center.  I would like to do some softies on the sides, as the wifey likes the 'movement'. 

VHO option:
 - 24" bulb is $22 roughly, and 20 watts each x 4
 - $10 for end caps x 4
 - $26 for new Icecap 660 wiring harness (unless I just splice together wires)
VHO total roughly for my two ends at 2 foot by 2 foot = $144 roughly

I really like the focusing idea, and the 'expandability' factor.  I can get some now and wire them up farther apart and with a spread optic, and then later on when the price comes down, re-wire the ones i have and add more for density or focusing. 

- Rayk

[cyberwollf]

15 LEDs would run you about $100 and leave you $40 for power supply, drivers, heatsink, fan... That maybe a little optimistic.  maybe go down to 10 LEDs.  With no optics, i think they run 90degree spread, how tall is your tank? I think we'll need to do a little research to see how much PAR we would get at that depth to ensure we have enough LEDs for softies....Also some softies require much more PAR than others, so that would matter too.

[rayk]

Tank is a standard 180, so 24" deep, but will have a 2" sand bed probably, so 22" at depth.  I'm not so concerned about matching the VHO price, but if I'm going to spend some cash, I'd rather spend it on something that a) can be upgraded b) is a newer technology to play with and c) uses less power and causes less heat.   I didn't even price in the replacement bulbs and cost of actually shipping lightbulbs.  So, cost of LEDs could be $200 to $250 and still map out cheaper with all the benefits. 

I'll try to dig around, but those dang reefcentral threads get so long, and so many questions interjected.  I did see one where BeanAnimal actually got banned for a few days because he was questioning an LED vendor about actual PARs, etc.

- Rayk

[cyberwollf]

I did see one where BeanAnimal actually got banned

 

for a few days

    Man I hate that guy! Yea we need to do some testing locally.  Didnt someone buy a 18 or 24 LED kit? I'd like to take some PAR measurements on that thing.  RapidLED.com will give you some good prices to figure in your budget.

[jd]

I hate that guy too. Hes a 'I'm right and that is all there is too it" person.

White LEDs can be had for around a $1-$2 cheaper than blues, as Wes said.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

I plan on doing some extensive PAR testing with them in the next week. I need to order a few blues also. My modules are easy to make so I can play around with spacing and alternating the colors.

[cyberwollf]

Does deals extreme have any way to prove the q5 binning? im always leery of the ONE website selling them for $1.50 less (Almost 25% off) ....

[jd]

I know that quite a few people have got them on RC, as far as a proving it, who know. They have a packing label from cree thats says q5, but that is kinda meaningless. Can you confirm that nano-tuners's LEDs are Q5? It's really hit or miss. If we had a lm meter we could be for sure.

[chromiumlux]

Why would a supplier market them as q5 and send something different. I dont understand

[jd]

They can get the lower grades for cheaper and mark them up. Mine came from hong kong so who knows what they are. I'm happy with them either way.

[cyberwollf]

AND you CANT tell the differnce visually. They are all the same identical part. They just do in plant testing and sell the better performers for more (binning). How many poeple have the tools to ensure a "discount" 3rd party supplier is telling the truth?

[reefman]

I just do not understand!!!

[reefman]

so how is this LED doing JD?

[jd]

Very well. Its for some AOG Plays and a Branching Porites that are doing well. I need some royal blues to color them up, but I haven't ordered any yet.