Phosphate issue

[slandis3]

it might be best to go to algaescrubber.net because just like many other threads on RC, its congested with a million posts. But the first couple posts are main key points.

   Kinda like how this thread got off track

[Boonjob]

TOAST !

[kattz]

  Kinda like how this thread got off track

+ like 1000.

[micki]

Darin, Randy said he doesn't think we have the space right now until he changes a few things.  Doesn't think he will be ready next week.  The "honey do" list is a bit long right now!  LOL

Now back to your scheduled phosphate issue topic! 

[lazylivin]

Yesterday I finally got around to making a change. The tank that is full of the suspected rock is no longer inline with the rest of the system. If that tank phosphates go up and the main tank goes down than it would likely prove rock is issue. However as someone mentioned the phosphates have likely been absorbed by the good rock. Time will tell. Thanks for all the suggestions and will keep posted on changes.

[larrynews]

i started dosing reef bio fuel again , just a maintenance and it is taking care of the overflows which is where  mine is

[lazylivin]

Thanks Larry, it looks like good stuff. I use MB7 but will look into this instead.

[micki]

i started dosing reef bio fuel again , just a maintenance and it is taking care of the overflows which is where  mine is

Larry how long have you been dosing this?  Do you think it works better/cheaper than phosban?

[larrynews]

i use it instead of vodka, i used back when i changed my tank over and hair algae real bad and it took care of it, now i'm using it again to help with algae growing in the overflows....

http://www.marinedepot.com/Brightwell_Aquatics_Reef_Biofuel_Liquid_17oz_500mL_Bacteria_Water_Treatments_Conditioners-Brightwell_Aquatics-BW01230-FIADWTBS-vi.html

[micki]

So that would be about 8 caps each day...I need to do some math and see how the $$$ comes out compared to phosban.  How long did you have to do this for your HA outbreak?

[larrynews]

i think about 2 weeks then i just did it once or twice a week i cant remember, for maintenance so it wouldnt come back. i got it at first from rich at coral ranch, i'd check with him to see if he can get it.  how big is your tank and how bad it the problem???

[larrynews]

Medium- to High-nutrient Systems: Add 5 ml (1 capful) per 50 US-gallons (189.3 L) [˜2 drops per gallon (3.8 L)] of aquarium water daily. Monitor concentrations of phosphate and nitrate with accurate test kits; phosphate and nitrate should eventually become immeasurable (or nearly so) when a balance is reached between the rates of nutrient-input and nutrient-assimilation. Thereafter, switch to “low-nutrient” dosage (below). Low-nutrient Systems: Add 5 ml (1 capful) per 100 US-gallons (378.5 L) [˜1 drop per gallon (3.8 L)] of aquarium water daily. With time, hobbyists may determine that decreasing the dosage and/or dosing frequency by up to 50% sufficiently maintains a low-nutrient environment. During changes in biological filtration or when increasing the aquarium bioload, dose 1 drop per 50 US-gallons daily for one week, then resume “low-nutrient” dosage.

[Reefpete]

wow 

[micki]

the problem is very minor at this time.  I over feed and can see some P04 issues coming on. 

[kattz]

i have a similar issue as Brian cropping up, and am going to try Brightwell Katalyst.  They guys at Phishy Business are swearing by it and I'm going to order tomorrow.  Run it instead of GFO.  Seed using MB7.

Kev

[larrynews]

mine is just a nuisance on the over flow slots, thats why i just use it to maintain, i to over feed have for 7 years and dont see me stopping anytime soon.

[Wall_Tank]

These are all various forms of Carbon dosing.

Probably contain various forms of carbon.   Vodka, Sugar, Vinegar is just cheaper.   They appear to be diluted more, to reduce the risk of accidental overdosing.

I used Prodibio for a while, with good results, I just opted for the cheaper VSV.

[lazylivin]

Update on my issue.

Recap... Having a Phosphate issue in my tank. Despite exporting phosphates via an unusual amount of Cheato growth/pruning excessive and large Water Changes tremendous amount of GFO the phosphate comes back. Typically takes about 1.5 weeks to exhaust 5 cups of GFO.

The suspects are.
A.) Rock that was purchased from another reefer who got out of hobby due to Algae issue.
B.) Oatley Fixit stick used to create rockscape.

System consits of 125G display with minimal rock work. None of which is the suspect rock but contains the Oatley fix it stick. This tank is plumbed to a 75G tank full of the suspect rock and a 75g frag tank and 50 gallon sump.

The consensus was to isolate the suspect rock from main system to see identify where the issue is coming from.

On 7/28, took the 75 gallon tank with suspect rock out of the main system loop. Here are the results.

System A = 75g Tank full of suspect rock, cheato with 300w light on it, hang on back protien skimmer and Koralia 4.

System B = 125g Display with suspect Oatley Fix it Stick, 75g Frag Tank, 50g Sump, Reef Octopus Skimmer and plenty of circulation in all tanks. Also running 2 BRS GFO reactors with 5 cups of GFO.

Only Maintenace done during this duration of time was on System B. Did 55g Water Change on Aug 6 and replaced 2.5 cups GFO in one reactor.

[slandis3]

How much of the epoxy did you use?

Is the algae only growing in the main tank or is it growing in other tanks hooked to system B?

[kattz]

Here's a thought, and it's not an easy decision.  You may have already done it, but here goes.  You remember how I had to pull my tank down and clean up?  In looking at your tank, most of your corals have taken a heckuva hit. 

There's a cleaner solution that's reef safe that will clean any slime out of the plumbing, which may be contributing to your issue.  You can get it from Kim or online, and you can run it now to get ahead of the follow on recommendations.  I'm using it and it's working as advertised.  See link:
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Waste_Away/Algae_Slime/Algae_Slime.html

Make up enough water to replace the system water in the B system.  I know this in itself will take a lot of work. 

Pull out your livestock and your corals that you can save, and put them in that quarantine tank of yours.

Pull ALL of the rock, and all of the sand.  Wipe out the tank, plumbing, etc. 

Put in four bags of new live sand, leave the rock out, and get the system going again. 

After 48 hours and water test OK, return the livestock.  Leave the rock out.

This is what I did, and 95% of my n03 and p04 problems went away immediately and have stayed away.  You could have "mud" under your substrate that is contributing to this, the substrate is leaching out phosphate, and any other issues that this will fix.  I know it sucks, but best I can think of.

[Boonjob]

Have you tested your salt mix for phosphates? I know they all say nitrate and phosphate free, but I have read that some mixes still yield a decient phosphate reading  even though they claim this.

You may have answered this but have you recently changed any food or used any epoxy's on the tank?

I may have to agree with Kattz on this one, It may be laden in your substrate... how deep is it and how old?  When I had the 55gal I had a bad phos/trate problem and when I switched to the 90 I switched everything over EXCEPT the substrate. I chose to buy live from premium aquatics and my numbers dramatically decreased and remained low, and continued to fall... The number still isn't SPS worthy but it was a HUGE Change and I suspect the remaining amount is just what was left in the rocks.

[HUNGER]

i dont belive its the substrate cuz i have never had a Phosphate issue in my tank beside some bad salt i have 5 to 6 inchs of sand that has never been vacuumed in 6 years unless the substrate was in a tank for a long time with very high Phosphates and is now just leaching it out in the tank

[kattz]

Porosity, componsition, history of tank, and other variables need to be considered.  Since we can't access most of this info, sometimes it's best to err on the side of caution.

[Boonjob]

I promise you it was the sand in my case(absolutely nothing else changed), if Todd would like to humor us he has that very same sand in the 55gal still he could always add some clean ro water to a small batch of it and test it with the sali kit...

I have also read numerous posts/articles about laden phosphates in brand new bags of carrib sea... anything decaying is gonna realease phosphates, I dont believe the sand will asorb this(per granule), but I do believe it can certainly trap and harbor it between the granules. If any food,snails, etc make it down deep enough into the sand I believe it could vary well release phosphates later down the road if distrubed or slowly leach out over time as organisms in the sand move them to the surface

[Todd W.]

I promise you it was the sand in my case(absolutely nothing else changed), if Todd would like to humor us he has that very same sand in the 55gal still he could always add some clean ro water to a small batch of it and test it with the sali kit...

I have also read numerous posts/articles about laden phosphates in brand new bags of carrib sea... anything decaying is gonna realease phosphates, I dont believe the sand will asorb this(per granule), but I do believe it can certainly trap and harbor it between the granules. If any food,snails, etc make it down deep enough into the sand I believe it could vary well release phosphates later down the road if distrubed or slowly leach out over time as organisms in the sand move them to the surface

Yep I still have it in my garage and it is not cleaned out yet, still has the sand.  What did you want me to do with some of it?  Put it in some RO/DI and run what Salifert test on it?