Vitamin C Dosing

[Logzor]

I am not sure if anyone has heard of this form of carbon dosing but myself and several other local people have had great success. Below in the basic dosing information. More can be found under the RC Zoas forum, you cant miss it.

Apparently dosing vitamin c not only acts like other carbon sources (vodka) but will improve the health of zoanthids and other soft corals.

Taken from RC:

Use this product:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails...7697039798&at=0
$5 0ff coupon code: LOG439

1/4 tsp=1112 mg.

For every 100 gallons:

5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC
Dose 2x/day.

Be sure your pH and alk are within normal reef limits before starting.
Shoot for a ppm of around 5 if only dosing for improved coral growth, coloration, and spread. Shoot for higher amounts up to 30 ppm if you are having melting zoas or closed zoas and look for the causes of your problems as you dose. Check for high nitrates, pests, zoa pox, predators, and unstable water conditions.
Dose low amounts and increase the amount slowly over the course of a few days to a couple weeks.
If you notice an algae bloom or increased skim on your glass then cut back by half until it disappears.
Watch your skimmer, it will start to skim more.
Dose the amount twice a day in a fast moving area of your sump or overflow. You may dilute the vitamin c in ro/di water for a minute then pour into my overflow. If adding to sump, try and add the vitamin c after filtration such as skimmers and reactors.

[Logzor]

After dosing this for nearly two weeks I have noticed some major differences in my reef tank. I run 80% sps with some lps and polyps.

Algae growth has come to a complete halt. I no longer have to clean my front glass. The color of my zoanthids are "popping". I have also noticed slight color changes on some of my sps, although, I attribute this to the reduction of nitrates/phosphates.

I started out pretty slow; way below the 5ppm mark. I am up to nearly 10ppm with no negative effects.

Here is skimmate about 3-4 days after dosing, this skimmer cup was cleaned out less than 24 hours before the picture:

[verper]

Interesting.  I haven't read about that yet.  Might have to do some reading.

What's the difference between dosing C and vodka or vodka/sugar/vinegar?

[micki]

I'm interested in learning more about this as well...

[Logzor]

The thing is that Vitamin C dosing is still pretty experimental. The true effects on coral and other reef inhabitants have not been fully explored. 

I did a quick read of the basics and jumped in in hopes of contributing to the experiment. So far its been pretty interesting.

I understand the Vitamin C and Vodka are the same in that they are both carbon sources. Basically they both 'lure' bacteria to feed in the water column. Since they normally they would stay on the glass, rock, etc they do not get skimmed out. They would rather hang out where it is 'safe' and eat there. I think this is why before I had to clean my glass every 2 days and now I never have to clean it. Please, correct me if I am wrong regarding how dosing carbon makes skimming more efficient.

Anyways. Soft corals, such as zoas, etc use collagen to build their bodies and the theory is that vitamin c improves the immune system and prevents them from melting at higher dosages (once you get up to 10-20ppm). This was the original logic behind vitamin c dosing....to prevent zoas melting. Some have reported that is works, increases the growth rate, and intensifies the color of zoanthids. I have witnessed at least one of these and I am positive it is the result of vitamin c.

For more information there is a massive thread on RC in the Zoanthid forum. It is filled with a lot of crap and is hard to sort through. What I have written above is what I have gathered from it. 

[ohioreef]

What are you using for your vitamin c source?

[Logzor]

In the first post I have some quoted text. It is pretty small but there is a link to the actual product I am using. It is a 7.1PH buffered vitamin c in crystalline form. It just comes in a big bottle and I mix it with some water until it dissolves and I dump it into my sump.

The vitamin c pills and other non-pure forms are a big no-no and will drop your PH and cause other problems. Some have something called rosehip in them among other additives. The linked product is pure and buffed with sodium.

[micki]

The link just says page not found...

[Logzor]

Sorry. There is some kind of error when I paste that link from the original post.

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=-7152293197697039798

[MechanicalEngineer]

Hm, very interesting.  I had heard of this, but had never researched more into it (never really had a need.)  Do you have before & after pics?  Does this technique affect all softies or just zoas?  Why zoas? 

[micki]

Does this method do anythign for other types of algea such and HA?

[MechanicalEngineer]

I would imagine that since it's a carbon source, it would lower phosphates/nitrates...and therefore help reduce HA and other algaes.  What about bubble algaes since they tend to thrive in low nutrient environments?

[micki]

Hmmmmm, sounding more interesting. 

[ohioreef]

I may have to give it a try. See if it slows down my HA.

How are you dosing it, all at once or with a dosing pump?

[micki]

I've never had a HA problem until the past few weeks.  I'm sure it was from the seaweed salad I used. 

Gary how long have you been having HA issues again?  I thought you resolved that?

[ohioreef]

I picked a bunch out, but there are still a couple spots. I really need to get my bulbs replaced and a new clean-up crew. I have really neglected the tank since the crash in July.

[micki]

I got a new clean up crew and new bulbs hoping that would stop it.  It's not out of control yet... 

[Logzor]

I dose all at once. In the morning and then in the evening. It stays in the system for around 8 hours.

I imagine it would help with the HA depending on the amount of flow you have in your tank and how good your skimmer is. If you increase flow, skim well, run a lot of phosban, and dose vitamin c you could really knock that HA out quite easily.

Of course you want to do all of the regular practices to reduce nitrates and phosphate; do frequent water changes and reduce feedings.

[Riderc82]

What type of skimmer are you using Logzor?

[Logzor]

I use the OCTO extreme 200 (MSX200) on my DT (90g).

[Riderc82]

What do you think of the Octopus extreme?

[Logzor]

Well after using a coralife super skimmer 125 on my 55g and then moving to this. What do you thank? HA.

I absolutely love it. No start up problems, skims extremely well, low power usage. It fits in a 30L sump. I think it has a great build quality, I would say it is the best possible skimmer for the money.

[Brians937]

ok so how does the product you use vary from say the kent marine vitamin C? And this talk about vodka, I'm assuming this is the liquor? would it have any affect on cyno??

[Logzor]

There is no comparison with the kent vitamin c. For how much some people normally dose (15+ppm) with the powder it would take the entire bottles of that stuff 2x a day.

You need to have very stable alk, calcium, ph, and other parameters before attempting to dose carbon. Also, a very good skimmer is need.

And yes, cheap vodka, the drink 

It may have effects on cyano. I am having luck with killing an algae that was thought to be un-killable.

[Brians937]

let me know how the cyno killing goes with the vodka. I'm working at petland in the fish department and cyno has been a huge problem with them. I have knowed it down a bunch but still not completly gone

[MechanicalEngineer]

Brians937 - Somehow I don't see your work letting you buy vodka "for the fishtanks". 

[Brians937]

if it will kill the cyno lol, plus drunk fish will be a saling point lol!

[NEWMAN]

Anyone new trying the Vitamin C dosing? Sounds very interesting!!!!

[Logzor]

I recommend giving it a shot. I have had very good results with it. It has killed an algae for me that was considered unable to be killed. One of those low nutrient high flow / high loving algaes. Nasty stuff.

Since dosing my chaeto has not grown and I have not had to clean my glass at all. It does an amazing job at pulling out nutrients from your rock and algae.

If you start out slow and have a good skimmer there is very little risk.

[micki]

I wondered what it would do to any macro or chaeto.  I have both in seperate tanks but attached to my system.  I wouldn't want to lose those.

[NEWMAN]

Sounds like it would slowdown the growth of macro

[micki]

That's what I'm thinking as well.  Hmmmmm...

[Logzor]

Yeah its part of the nutrient stripping effects of it. It will halt the growth of macro algae.

I find it good, no need to waste money on lighting a fuge or even having one.

If you have some sort of nuisance algae or nitrates / phosphates you just cant get rid of this is a good option. Once the problem is taken care of you can stop dosing and just grow macro algae.

[micki]

I'm having a lot of macro algae growth in my over flows.  It's really causing a big problem.  I wonder if I could use this to stop that problem??? 

[rayviv]

Just wanted to add this link, http://www.athiel.com/lib2/pguide/vitami1.html  ,   to this thread and update it.

Some are having questions about their palys/zoos and that is addressed in this link about dosing vitamin C.
 

[HUNGER]

I'm having a lot of macro algae growth in my over flows.  It's really causing a big problem.  I wonder if I could use this to stop that problem??? 

mite have to just clean it out more often and take all the watter out and fill it up with fresh watter

[~reefchik~]

I began doing this earlier this week.  I found the exact buffered VC powder recommended.  I also am keeping close track of progress, with notes and photos.  I can only say so far after 5 doses of C that my tightly closed new zoas are beginning to open and show a tiny pinpoint of color.  Also my yellow palys are beginning to open. 

I also checked all my water parameters today and had some issues....   which I am in process of correcting.  But anyway, I'll be documenting my experience with Vit C dosing if anyone cares 

[HUNGER]

thats great to hear

[reefman]

Dosing without testing is bad!

[~reefchik~]

Dosing without testing is bad!

  Yes it is.  I assumed my levels were about the same as two weeks ago, but I find they have changed quite a bit.  And that after a 40 gallon water change.  ??

[reefman]

seems odd that a water change would do that!

[chromiumlux]

Why a 40 gallon water change on a 90g tank?

[~reefchik~]

seems odd that a water change would do that!

I agree.

[reefman]

40 on a 90 seems like to much at one time!

[~reefchik~]

Why a 40 gallon water change on a 90g tank?

Oh geez....a typo.  I should have said 20 gallon.  Because it's been a while??  No particular reason other than that.  I finally made up enough new salt water for a nice water change.  I had some IO saved up for a couple months but it smelled stale and there was slime on the inside of the container, so I cleaned it out and made new.  I also thought that the RSCP would be a wonderful change for the tank.  

[reefman]

when you change salts you should mix it with the old for a few changes and go slow to change it over 100%

[~reefchik~]

Ok.  I never heard that before, but it makes sense.  Thank you.

[rayviv]

I began doing this earlier this week.  I found the exact buffered VC powder recommended.  I also am keeping close track of progress, with notes and photos.  I can only say so far after 5 doses of C that my tightly closed new zoas are beginning to open and show a tiny pinpoint of color.  Also my yellow palys are beginning to open. 

I also checked all my water parameters today and had some issues....   which I am in process of correcting.  But anyway, I'll be documenting my experience with Vit C dosing if anyone cares 

Thats great to hear and I'm sure that I am not the only one that looks forward to your info on post

[jd]

Raising this thread from the dead...

Reefchik - How did/is this working for you? I've got a few zoas with pox and wanted to give this a shot. Where did you find the powder locally?

[coral ranch]

I found pure vitamin c with buffer at health foods unlimmited

[Kenn]

I am now a big fan of the Furan-2 dip.

However I would like to see posts of your results on the Vitamin c Dosing

[HUNGER]

However I would like to see posts of your results on the Vitamin c Dosing

+1 same here

[jd]

Rich, what system did you do this on? How where your results?

[coral ranch]

I used it on the right raceway. I followed the instructions on the RC thread. The algae disapeared but I did not see a significant change in our zoanthids. In the end it became to expensive to treat the whole 400 gal system so I stopped. One week later the hair algae returned and with the summer sun coming on it got worst than ever. I doubled the water changes and got the same result, the algae is all but gone and it cost me less. We will start dosing vitamin C on our back Zoa tank to see if we can notice any change in the zoanthids in a smaller system.

[jd]

Thanks Rich. How much where you dosing on the 400 gallon system? Be sure to take some pics of the zoa tanks before you start!

[~reefchik~]

I've had really good results. 

My dosing was kept at about 15-20 ppm.  I did find out you really need to stay on top of your pH testing and buffer addition so you don't drop the pH too much.

My zoas all opened eventually, except for one colony which I believe got eaten by someone. 

My skimmate got NASTY as heck - warning!

There's no algae and no cyano anywhere at all, and the chaeto and caulerpa in the fuge are doing great.  I've never had such a clean tank.

I slacked off the dosing for a couple of weeks, but began back again last week.   I found the exact same buffered Vitamin C powder as Pufferpunk buys online at Healthfoods Unlimited in Miamisburg. 

[Kenn]

Is there a brand name on the Vitamin C I should look for ?

[jd]

I just ordered my Vit C today, should have it next week. I will faithfully (lets hope) document my progress for everyone.

[lazylivin]

Here ya go http://www.iherb.com/nutribiotic-sodium-ascorbate-crystalline-powder-16-oz-454-g/10178?at=0
Use coupon code: LUL789 for 5$ off. Shipping is 4$
Dosing calculator http://www.reefsome.com/articles/Vitamin-C-Dosing

[HUNGER]

o wow that cool thank lazy
keep on it jd  i will start here in about 3 to 4  weeks  if urs does well

[jd]

Thanks Lazy, that is exaxtly what I ordered. Only cost $13 shipped so its worth a shot.

[coral ranch]

Jd I will have to look at our loggs to get the exact dose but I followed the dosing outlined in the RC thread listed ealier