Ammonia dosing?!?

[joelbegt]

It sounds crazy, but with a new system comes new challenges.  Since I have setup a new system I have had issues with my water being void of nutrients.  We have had a few acros go from brown to colorful to bleached. P04 has been around .03-.06 but Nitrates are never detectable.  We started feeding planktonic foods at the maximum recommended Mftr doses yet only seemed to raise P04.  We dosed NeoNitro to get 3ppm of Nitrates.  I tested 7 days later at 0.00 nitrates. I started trying dosing smaller amounts every other day and over a two week period I saw significant color Impovements.

Would dosing Ammonia at extremely low levels effectly replace nitrate dosing, or be the same as increasing fish population?  Do fish really add more than just ammonia to the water?

My thoughts would be that dosing ammonia would possibly increase bacterial populations in a way similar to carbon source dosing but also possibly increase nitrates.  I'm don't want to add more fish, or spend too much money putting nutrients back into the system.  Dosing ammonia scares me a bit.

[Wall_Tank]

A few seen similar issue with low nutrient systems.   We raised nutrients through heavy feelings..... I agree, ammonia would scare me.   But In Theory I think it would work, I just would. Not know how small of a dose would be required.......  And too much would be disastrous

[joelbegt]

found a few interesting facts so far in my searching Old RC threads:

"2 tangs = .5mg/l/day in 8l of water.
1 tang=.25mg/l/day in 8l of water.
.25mg/l/day * 8l = 2mg/day
2mg/day / 600l (liters in 125 gallons)=.0033mg/l/day

One tang in a 125 gal is producing .0033mg/l/day
.0033 * 2.7 = .0089mg/l/day nitrite
.0033 * 3.6 = .0119mg/l/day nitrate
10 similar fish in a 125 = .119mg/l/day nitrate."

270g(my system)/125g(from above equation)=2.16
.119mg/l/day  /  2.16=.054mg/l/day of nitrate production if I added roughly 10 yellow tangs.

2drops of household ammonia brings 1gallon to 1ppm.
.1ppm needs corrective action and .25ppm would need immediate treatment with removal of animals sensitive to Ammonia

unfortunately does not look like a lot of room for error.  Above information was calculated not real life.  I don't want to be responsible for any errors.

Paul, may I post links to the information I found on RC?

[Wall_Tank]

That's fine Joel..., go ahead

[Topekoms]

Honestly I wouldn't see an issue with this. I myself have started dosing vodka cause my nitrates are too high. The logic seems sound for the ammonia I would approach it the same as vodka dosing start very small amount and increase it until your get nitrates to the level you want. so with your systems joel I think even starting a dose of .1ml and just moving up wouldn't be harmful at all

[mtamorrow]

removed reply. I wrote something stupid!

[joelbegt]

Here are links to some of the information found:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=864197

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/


System in question info:
270g total shallow display
Filter sock
SRO3000 skimmer
No powerhead 12k gph closed loop
Ati T5 very even 400-500 par at coral placement depth
No live rock, but have 20L of biological media
2-part on dosers including Magnesium
ATO
2 large tangs for algae control

[joelbegt]

Lee, what kind for Nitrates and Phosphates are you testing at?  I agree starting small and working upward would be best.

[Topekoms]

phosphates are at like .2 last I tested and nitrates were 75 on lazy's test kit. found out my kit was bad I was getting a zero reading. should have a new kit by the 8th hoping this fixes my issues.

[joelbegt]

After dosing almost 800ml of nitrate over the last month I have got my P04 down to .01ppm and Nitrates at 5ppm according to Friday and Saturday's tests.  I'm hoping my Nitrate dosing will slow down now that I will be P04 limited.  I will decide after a week or two if I should start dosing ammonia.

Reading around I have found claims that Algae and corals both use  Nitrate while only corals uptake ammonia.  Ideally ammonia would prevent algae more so than nitrate.