vodka dosing

[CoralBeauties]

Ok is or has anyone been using vodka dosing, not in their mouth but in their tanks ?  I started to read some about it on RC and it sounds promissing to help out with no3 and po4 removal.  I have had a slight ongoing growth of algae and have noticed alittle bit of red slime lately.  I have a remote sand bucket, po4 reactor and deep sand bed in my sump.  I just added 3 mangroves into my sand bed tonight.  I feel that my polyp extension just isnt what it should be and the slight algae is probably from no3 and or po4 that is not detected with my test kits.  Just wondering if anyone has tried this method with success?
Jeff

[micki]

I've been reading about this as well.  Sounds interesting.

[reefman]

Why not try to figure out what is causing the problem instead of adding chemicals to the tank.

[MechanicalEngineer]

MSUJenn and Verper have both been using this method.  I'll let them give their own descriptions.

Reefman, sometimes there are circumstances where there is no easy solution to the algae.  For instance, bubble algae can live in low nutrient systems...some forms of byropsis aren't killed easily, and some people just want different colors from their corals.  Additionally, sometimes rocks leaching phosphates isn't an easy thing to fix either.  Vodka/Sugar/Vinegar dosing is sometimes an option that works for people. 

However, VSV shouldn't be attempted if you haven't exhausted every other option.  It takes lots of dosing, lots of testing...and if you aren't willing to check out everything on your tank...this isn't the method for you. 

I tried to Blu Coral Method (which is high nutrient + sugar)...and it worked beautifully.  However, it was a lot of work, and my skimmer wasn't up to that sort of bioload.  My colors haven't been the same since I went off of it, but they're still beautiful...so I'll settle.

[MechanicalEngineer]

jjoos99 - what sort of skimmer are you running...on what size tank? 

[UDJustin]

I think Joel does beer dosing

[Joel]

I needed a way to use up the wonderful Odules you bought me

[verper]

Ok is or has anyone been using vodka dosing,   Just wondering if anyone has tried this method with success?
Jeff

Yes.  It worked beautifully for me but at some cost.  I used the Prodibio Bio Digest and the Vodka/sugar/vinegar (VSV) method.  If you have been reading about it, then you know you need a big skimmer for it to work well.  You may have some red slime at first, but it goes away.  I did.

My green bubble algae as well as some short turf algae both died off within a month or so of me starting.  The bubble algae was amazing - I had clumps of the stuff detach from the rock and I was able to net it out without any manual removal from the rock.  There is still some single bubbles here and there, but not the clumps I had.  The short turf algae just turned white and died.  I don't have a bit of it still in the tank.  So from that respect, its awesome.

From a coral standpoint, I had some problems.  I think I overdid it too quickly and burnt some acro tips.  Some of my montis also did not fare well - did the bleaching in the centers as is reported by others.  Weird part is that some acros and montis were affected, and some were not.  Sometimes they would be side by side and one would be affected and the other not.  I'm also sure I didn't recognise soon enough that I was at an Ultra Low Nutrient (ULN) state and start dosing aminos and feeding more heavily.  I don't feel like my coral colors got any better or worse (except for the affected corals) but I've always had good luck with my coral colors to begin with.

[Amstar]

so what is the purpose of vodka dosing.  to help with bad algae or to help color up corals?

[CoralBeauties]

vodka dosing is used to lower the nutrient levels in your tank to the point that algae will not grow.  Thus a much cleaner tank.  The biggest draw back is that the coral can also be affected and you need to supplement for this loss.
  I have a g3 skimmer with a recirc. mod and gate valve mod.  I would guess my system to be about 220 gallons.  I thought about trying this to bring out the color and growth of my sps corals.  I have slight algae and dont seem to have the growth and coloration others are having with their corals
Jeff

[verper]

so what is the purpose of vodka dosing.  to help with bad algae or to help color up corals?

Like Jeff said - In my case it was to lower nutrients - phosphates and nitrates in particular.  I alway had low or non-existent numbers on both of those but the bubble algae would still grow.  It was using whatever PO4 and NO3 I had in my tank to grow.  Sort of like having a refugium in the main display tank.  Of course I didn't want that and the vodka dosing helped get rid of it.

Some will use it to mimic a Zeo system that keeps nutrients low in the tank to stress the coral so that they will artificially color up better.  Just way cheaper than a Zeo system.

[MSUJenn]

I used it as well to lower PO4 and NO3. I can't really say anything much different than Scott already said. I'm dosing the VSV with the biodigest, and amino acids. I still have algae issues though (which I'm slowly winning). It really colored up my corals that had browned out, but I did lose a monti cap in the process. I never had problems with burnt tips, and I keep my alk a little higher than NSW, but I think they recommend keeping your alk lower to avoid it.

All in all it was a good experience, and I still continue to dose everything. My only advice is to take it slow in the beginning and test a lot until you find that magic number.

[yinyang]

jeff!!
i still think it might be your crush coral bed
because crush coral good for ph,but will cost u high NO3( i always heard crush coral is not good for keep lower no3)
i know it is hard for u to change over!
maybe u can thin your crush coral bed little bit,get lots sand shifter
just my 2cents

[apelaston]

A lot of detrius can settle in the crushed coral making it a no3 factory. . .it only sits on the surface of the sand til it gets stirred up. ...

[mash35231]

 I've been vodka dosing for 3 weeks and my results are like Verper's. The bubble algae and turf algae are 99% gone. There is a thread on Reef Central that had the recommended dosing amounts. Vodka is all that I dose, no sugar or vinegar.

[MechanicalEngineer]

i have crushed coral with no problems.  My nitrates are at 0.  The key is to keep it vaccumed out. 

[CoralBeauties]

I have all of my rock work setting on the glass, essentially bare bottem but as Bin mentioned I do have crushed coral in front of my rock work for appearance reasons.  I do vacuum it with each water change.  What added benifits do you get from the sugar and vinegar dosing along with the vodka?  What products are you using after your nutrients are wiped out? Names and brands would be helpfull.
Thanks
Jeff

[verper]

Have you been reading this RC thread - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225324&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

A member named glassbox-design posted up with the idea that by mixing vodka, sugar, and vinegar, you give the bacteria 3 different sources of carbon to feed on.  Some were feeding only vodka, some only sugar.  Not sure if glassbox was the first with the idea, but was one of the first to post about using VSV.  Read here - http://glassbox-design.com/2008/achieved-through-observation-and-experimentation/ 


I am currently using Warner Marine Amino Acids and feeding the tank more.  I also backed off of the Prodibio Bio Digest to once a month.  I've also stopped using GFO.  There is the assumption that if you have your PO4 very low by VSV dosing, you don't need something else also removing the PO4.  No PO4 is as bad as too much.

[Joel]

Strongly disagree about some of the opinions made about sand vrs crushed coral.

Crushed coral does not play a significant, if any roll in supporting the ph values we are wanting in salt water / reef aquariums when used as a substrate. Calcite substrates are not as water soluble as ooltic / aragonite substrates and do not positively buffer the water very much.

Silt / detritus does penetrate down into fine sand type substrates, not true it just sits on the surface.

The coarser type substrates such as dolomite, crushed coral & seaflor are much easier to keep clean than the fine sand type substrates. They (coarser substrates) vacuum much easier than sand plus are much more hospitipal to anthripods than sand. Also they don't get blown around by water current as easily as sand does.

Deep aragonite sand beds can play a significant roll in nitrate reduction but typically does better in another sump / filter (RDSB) Using crushed coral as a substrate is not the reason a person may experience elevated levels of nitrate or phosphate.

[MSUJenn]

What added benifits do you get from the sugar and vinegar dosing along with the vodka?  What products are you using after your nutrients are wiped out? Names and brands would be helpfull.

Ditto what Scott said, they feed different strains of bacteria, so you don't get a monoculture. There was a lot of controversy surrounding that theory on Reef Central, but I haven't read up on it awhile, so who knows, it may have changed.

I use the seachem's amino acids. That's all I could find locally when I first started dosing. I haven't had any problems with them, but I think in the future, I may try one of the more concentrated brands like zeo. I also dose Prodibio Bio Digest every 2 weeks.

[MechanicalEngineer]

I used the Zeovit Amino Acids in conjunction with the Blu Coral Method.  I got great colors...but without doing the whole method and just using the Amino Acids...nothing really changed.

[CoralBeauties]

well I went to the state store to pick up the cheapest bottle of vodka I could get last night.  I added my first addition of the vodka/sugar/vinegar mix last night.  I went with a dose of .1ml per 20 gallons to start with.  I just now ordered some prodibio bio digest and a bottle of brightwell's amino acids.
  My tank conditions are pretty good but could be better.  I have been seeing some red slime starting to form is some locations through out the tank.  My rock work is not what I would call algae free but it is far from being a forest.  What is odd is that one side of my tank looks cleaner then the other.  I dont know if the snails are doing a better job on that side or what might be the issue.  I just havent experienced the color and polyp extension that others seem to get from their sps.   My millis dont seem to pop like other's do but their growth rate is the best of all my corals.  some dont seem to grow at all.  All of my tank parameters are good and I just changed out half of my t-5 bulbs so i am hoping this vsv dosing will bring out the best in my tank.  I will post updates as things progress.
Jeff

[MechanicalEngineer]

Sorry to ask this probably for the billionth time, but how long has your tank been up and running?  How much flow do you have?

It took a good solid year and a half before I had the color/polyp extension that I'd been wanting.  All of my param's checked out...but just didn't have it.  I've heard many people in that boat...and think it may just take time for the system to mature.  Also, my slower growing Acroporas...I've realized that they are getting thicker rather than extending branches.  That'll vary partially due to flow (partially to species and other things.)

Good luck...take lots of pictures...and keep us updated! 

[CoralBeauties]

Actually my tank is just 6 month young.  I started with dried rock that I got from Just coral.  I have pretty decent flow i think.  I have 2 modded 1200 maxi-jets and 2 korlia #4s along with a 1200gph pump on a scwd.  Most corals whip around pretty good.  It does seem that my milli are thicker in their trunk and branches.  I dont notice the scalloping effect that I see on some other peoples.  I mainly got concerned when I started seeing some red slime and figured that I probably was getting some nitrate buildup.  I have a rdsb along with a deep sand bed in my skimmer sump.  i recently added 3 mangroves into the sand bed.  I have been thinking that my slower growth and polyp extension might be due to higher nutrients thus the red slime.  i will take several pics tonight to document the starting point of this test.

jeff

[Amstar]

doesnt gfo help reduce the same things that vodka dosing is trying to do?