Author Topic: vodka dosing (Read 8503 times)

CoralBeauties · « **on:** November 08, 2008, 00:01:10 »

Ok is or has anyone been using vodka dosing, not in their mouth but in their tanks

? I started to read some about it on RC and it sounds promissing to help out with no3 and po4 removal. I have had a slight ongoing growth of algae and have noticed alittle bit of red slime lately. I have a remote sand bucket, po4 reactor and deep sand bed in my sump. I just added 3 mangroves into my sand bed tonight. I feel that my polyp extension just isnt what it should be and the slight algae is probably from no3 and or po4 that is not detected with my test kits. Just wondering if anyone has tried this method with success?
Jeff

micki · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2008, 07:04:08 »

I've been reading about this as well. Sounds interesting.

reefman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2008, 08:39:00 »

Why not try to figure out what is causing the problem instead of adding chemicals to the tank.

MechanicalEngineer · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2008, 08:46:57 »

MSUJenn and Verper have both been using this method. I'll let them give their own descriptions.

Reefman, sometimes there are circumstances where there is no easy solution to the algae. For instance, bubble algae can live in low nutrient systems...some forms of byropsis aren't killed easily, and some people just want different colors from their corals. Additionally, sometimes rocks leaching phosphates isn't an easy thing to fix either. Vodka/Sugar/Vinegar dosing is sometimes an option that works for people.

However, VSV shouldn't be attempted if you haven't exhausted every other option. It takes lots of dosing, lots of testing...and if you aren't willing to check out everything on your tank...this isn't the method for you.

I tried to Blu Coral Method (which is high nutrient + sugar)...and it worked beautifully. However, it was a lot of work, and my skimmer wasn't up to that sort of bioload. My colors haven't been the same since I went off of it, but they're still beautiful...so I'll settle.

MechanicalEngineer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2008, 08:47:57 »

jjoos99 - what sort of skimmer are you running...on what size tank?

UDJustin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2008, 09:54:11 »

I think Joel does beer dosing

Joel · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2008, 09:55:46 »

I needed a way to use up the wonderful Odules you bought me

verper · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2008, 10:36:26 »

Quote from: jjoos99 on November 08, 2008, 00:01:10

Ok is or has anyone been using vodka dosing, Just wondering if anyone has tried this method with success?
Jeff

Yes. It worked beautifully for me but at some cost. I used the Prodibio Bio Digest and the Vodka/sugar/vinegar (VSV) method. If you have been reading about it, then you know you need a big skimmer for it to work well. You may have some red slime at first, but it goes away. I did.

My green bubble algae as well as some short turf algae both died off within a month or so of me starting. The bubble algae was amazing - I had clumps of the stuff detach from the rock and I was able to net it out without any manual removal from the rock. There is still some single bubbles here and there, but not the clumps I had. The short turf algae just turned white and died. I don't have a bit of it still in the tank. So from that respect, its awesome.

From a coral standpoint, I had some problems. I think I overdid it too quickly and burnt some acro tips. Some of my montis also did not fare well - did the bleaching in the centers as is reported by others. Weird part is that some acros and montis were affected, and some were not. Sometimes they would be side by side and one would be affected and the other not. I'm also sure I didn't recognise soon enough that I was at an Ultra Low Nutrient (ULN) state and start dosing aminos and feeding more heavily. I don't feel like my coral colors got any better or worse (except for the affected corals) but I've always had good luck with my coral colors to begin with.

Amstar · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2008, 12:35:29 »

so what is the purpose of vodka dosing. to help with bad algae or to help color up corals?

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2008, 13:22:45 »

vodka dosing is used to lower the nutrient levels in your tank to the point that algae will not grow. Thus a much cleaner tank. The biggest draw back is that the coral can also be affected and you need to supplement for this loss.
I have a g3 skimmer with a recirc. mod and gate valve mod. I would guess my system to be about 220 gallons. I thought about trying this to bring out the color and growth of my sps corals. I have slight algae and dont seem to have the growth and coloration others are having with their corals
Jeff

verper · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2008, 14:39:51 »

Quote from: Amstar on November 08, 2008, 12:35:29

so what is the purpose of vodka dosing. to help with bad algae or to help color up corals?

Like Jeff said - In my case it was to lower nutrients - phosphates and nitrates in particular. I alway had low or non-existent numbers on both of those but the bubble algae would still grow. It was using whatever PO4 and NO3 I had in my tank to grow. Sort of like having a refugium in the main display tank. Of course I didn't want that and the vodka dosing helped get rid of it.

Some will use it to mimic a Zeo system that keeps nutrients low in the tank to stress the coral so that they will artificially color up better. Just way cheaper than a Zeo system.

MSUJenn · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2008, 14:57:33 »

I used it as well to lower PO4 and NO3. I can't really say anything much different than Scott already said. I'm dosing the VSV with the biodigest, and amino acids. I still have algae issues though (which I'm slowly winning). It really colored up my corals that had browned out, but I did lose a monti cap in the process. I never had problems with burnt tips, and I keep my alk a little higher than NSW, but I think they recommend keeping your alk lower to avoid it.

All in all it was a good experience, and I still continue to dose everything. My only advice is to take it slow in the beginning and test a lot until you find that magic number.

yinyang · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2008, 19:35:00 »

jeff!!
i still think it might be your crush coral bed
because crush coral good for ph,but will cost u high NO3( i always heard crush coral is not good for keep lower no3)
i know it is hard for u to change over!
maybe u can thin your crush coral bed little bit,get lots sand shifter
just my 2cents

apelaston · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2008, 19:46:29 »

A lot of detrius can settle in the crushed coral making it a no3 factory. . .it only sits on the surface of the sand til it gets stirred up. ...

mash35231 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2008, 19:58:04 »

I've been vodka dosing for 3 weeks and my results are like Verper's. The bubble algae and turf algae are 99% gone. There is a thread on Reef Central that had the recommended dosing amounts. Vodka is all that I dose, no sugar or vinegar.

MechanicalEngineer · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2008, 20:55:59 »

i have crushed coral with no problems. My nitrates are at 0. The key is to keep it vaccumed out.

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2008, 23:27:29 »

I have all of my rock work setting on the glass, essentially bare bottem but as Bin mentioned I do have crushed coral in front of my rock work for appearance reasons. I do vacuum it with each water change. What added benifits do you get from the sugar and vinegar dosing along with the vodka? What products are you using after your nutrients are wiped out? Names and brands would be helpfull.
Thanks
Jeff

verper · « **Reply #17 on:** November 09, 2008, 10:17:59 »

Have you been reading this RC thread - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225324&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

A member named glassbox-design posted up with the idea that by mixing vodka, sugar, and vinegar, you give the bacteria 3 different sources of carbon to feed on. Some were feeding only vodka, some only sugar. Not sure if glassbox was the first with the idea, but was one of the first to post about using VSV. Read here - http://glassbox-design.com/2008/achieved-through-observation-and-experimentation/

I am currently using Warner Marine Amino Acids and feeding the tank more. I also backed off of the Prodibio Bio Digest to once a month. I've also stopped using GFO. There is the assumption that if you have your PO4 very low by VSV dosing, you don't need something else also removing the PO4. No PO4 is as bad as too much.

Joel · « **Reply #18 on:** November 09, 2008, 12:29:28 »

Strongly disagree about some of the opinions made about sand vrs crushed coral.

Crushed coral does not play a significant, if any roll in supporting the ph values we are wanting in salt water / reef aquariums when used as a substrate. Calcite substrates are not as water soluble as ooltic / aragonite substrates and do not positively buffer the water very much.

Silt / detritus does penetrate down into fine sand type substrates, not true it just sits on the surface.

The coarser type substrates such as dolomite, crushed coral & seaflor are much easier to keep clean than the fine sand type substrates. They (coarser substrates) vacuum much easier than sand plus are much more hospitipal to anthripods than sand. Also they don't get blown around by water current as easily as sand does.

Deep aragonite sand beds can play a significant roll in nitrate reduction but typically does better in another sump / filter (RDSB) Using crushed coral as a substrate is not the reason a person may experience elevated levels of nitrate or phosphate.

MSUJenn · « **Reply #19 on:** November 09, 2008, 14:27:16 »

Quote from: jjoos99 on November 08, 2008, 23:27:29

What added benifits do you get from the sugar and vinegar dosing along with the vodka? What products are you using after your nutrients are wiped out? Names and brands would be helpfull.

Ditto what Scott said, they feed different strains of bacteria, so you don't get a monoculture. There was a lot of controversy surrounding that theory on Reef Central, but I haven't read up on it awhile, so who knows, it may have changed.

I use the seachem's amino acids. That's all I could find locally when I first started dosing. I haven't had any problems with them, but I think in the future, I may try one of the more concentrated brands like zeo. I also dose Prodibio Bio Digest every 2 weeks.

MechanicalEngineer · « **Reply #20 on:** November 09, 2008, 15:49:07 »

I used the Zeovit Amino Acids in conjunction with the Blu Coral Method. I got great colors...but without doing the whole method and just using the Amino Acids...nothing really changed.

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2008, 11:57:57 »

well I went to the state store to pick up the cheapest bottle of vodka I could get last night. I added my first addition of the vodka/sugar/vinegar mix last night. I went with a dose of .1ml per 20 gallons to start with. I just now ordered some prodibio bio digest and a bottle of brightwell's amino acids.
My tank conditions are pretty good but could be better. I have been seeing some red slime starting to form is some locations through out the tank. My rock work is not what I would call algae free but it is far from being a forest. What is odd is that one side of my tank looks cleaner then the other. I dont know if the snails are doing a better job on that side or what might be the issue. I just havent experienced the color and polyp extension that others seem to get from their sps. My millis dont seem to pop like other's do but their growth rate is the best of all my corals. some dont seem to grow at all. All of my tank parameters are good and I just changed out half of my t-5 bulbs so i am hoping this vsv dosing will bring out the best in my tank. I will post updates as things progress.
Jeff

MechanicalEngineer · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2008, 17:48:56 »

Sorry to ask this probably for the billionth time, but how long has your tank been up and running? How much flow do you have?

It took a good solid year and a half before I had the color/polyp extension that I'd been wanting. All of my param's checked out...but just didn't have it. I've heard many people in that boat...and think it may just take time for the system to mature. Also, my slower growing Acroporas...I've realized that they are getting thicker rather than extending branches. That'll vary partially due to flow (partially to species and other things.)

Good luck...take lots of pictures...and keep us updated!

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #23 on:** November 13, 2008, 19:24:31 »

Actually my tank is just 6 month young. I started with dried rock that I got from Just coral. I have pretty decent flow i think. I have 2 modded 1200 maxi-jets and 2 korlia #4s along with a 1200gph pump on a scwd. Most corals whip around pretty good. It does seem that my milli are thicker in their trunk and branches. I dont notice the scalloping effect that I see on some other peoples. I mainly got concerned when I started seeing some red slime and figured that I probably was getting some nitrate buildup. I have a rdsb along with a deep sand bed in my skimmer sump. i recently added 3 mangroves into the sand bed. I have been thinking that my slower growth and polyp extension might be due to higher nutrients thus the red slime. i will take several pics tonight to document the starting point of this test.

jeff

Amstar · « **Reply #24 on:** November 13, 2008, 20:11:57 »

doesnt gfo help reduce the same things that vodka dosing is trying to do?

verper · « **Reply #25 on:** November 13, 2008, 21:24:00 »

Quote from: Amstar on November 13, 2008, 20:11:57

doesnt gfo help reduce the same things that vodka dosing is trying to do?

The GFO does remove PO4 (phosphates) but does nothing for NO3 (nitrates). I used GFO from the beginning on my tank. The weird part was that I always had low levels of PO4 or NO3. But I did have plenty of bubble algae and some turf algae. My conclusion was that the bubble algae was using what ever amounts I had in the tank. Somehow the VSV dosing build up enough bacterial in the tank to out compete the algae.

Amstar · « **Reply #26 on:** November 13, 2008, 21:37:29 »

I wouldnt think that with a tank only 6 months old that vodka dosing would be the way to go?

has to be something contributing to the red-slime and algae??

or I may just be missing something here

rmstevensiii · « **Reply #27 on:** November 14, 2008, 00:46:07 »

Jeff,

It's your tank, and it's your call, but I'd proceed very cautiously from here. You can temporarily clean out the red slime algae that you are seeing by blowing it lose with a turkey baster, and removing it from the tank. If it were my system, I'd hold off on the vodka dosing, and try and address the source. Cheap vodka is not good for anything or anyone, and it could do more harm than good.

A 6 month old system is pretty new. As previously stated, it can take more than a yr for your tank to truly mature. It is very possible that your system is going thru a mini cycle, esp if you are in and out of the tank often.

What is your water source? How old are your bulbs? Also keep in mind, that some algae will always exist in most systems. There are several reefers posting here, with very mature systems, and excellent tank maintenance routines, who still have some algae from time to time. In nature, there is, and will always be, a balance.

If it were me, I'd try to identify and address the root cause, remove what I could, and be very, very patient. If you are doing your part (not overfeeding, skimming, keeping up on water changes, using an appropriate, quality bulb and replacing then on schedule, have a good maintenance plan, etc), the tank will mature, and it will find its balance.

When that happens, you get to sit back, enjoy it, drink the vodka (or another beverage of your choice), and try not to screw it up!

My .02

apelaston · « **Reply #28 on:** November 14, 2008, 00:59:50 »

I have been very lucky n since i put my tank up in april haue never had an issue w algea. . .i do not think i am in the clear though. . .i agree that our systems are just babies and have some more maturing to do b4 we start giving it vodka sugar shots. . i would try to get to the root as well.

JoeAyers · « **Reply #29 on:** November 14, 2008, 08:43:48 »

I've thought about this in the past and thought I would maybe give my opinion (No scientific fact, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night). The whole goal of setting up a new tank with live rock and moving very slowly is to have the bacteria build up to handle the bio-load, to cycle the tank. What's wrong with helping it along with a little Stoli? We are just adding more bacteria types and thus cycling the tank faster. I would take it very Very veeerrrrryy slow but I wouldn't shy away if you are willing to make the commitment. In a new tank (assuming it isn't full of corals yet) the worst thing I could see happening is an algae outbreak from over dosing. Now I could be completely wrong and I won't be putting vodka in my new tank any time soon as I actually enjoy watching the tank work through all the cycles, but I'm not 100% sure it's a bad idea.

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #30 on:** November 25, 2008, 21:09:46 »

I am starting on my 12th day of dosing. Started out with just .1ml per 20 gallons. I slowly worked up my way to the dose of .5ml now. Things that I have noticed so far. Within the last several days I have noticed that my millis which have never shown signs of coralites are now forming them starting from the tips very slowly working their way down each branch. I have noticed a slight decrease in the purple coloration in one of my tricolors and the purple rimmed cap. Not sure if it is from the vsv or a bulb change I did several weeks before I started this. All the other corals are unchanged in both color and polyp extension. Tonight I have noticed that the green mat type of algae that has been on my rock work has started to turn white. so far so good, no adverse effects.
When should I start adding the aminos?
Jeff

MSUJenn · « **Reply #31 on:** November 25, 2008, 21:46:08 »

That's great that you're seeing positive results Jeff. The color loss could be from the vsv. Mine turned pale until I started the AA's and feeding more. What are your phosphate and nitrate readings (can't remember if you said they were already zero). You could probably start adding the AA's now, but I'd keep an eye on the algae, and back off the aminos if it starts growing more. I would probably keep your vsv dose where it is, and not increase it anymore, since you're seeing results. You don't want to get a bacterial bloom.

Jon in SW Ohio · « **Reply #32 on:** November 26, 2008, 15:17:10 »

I'm finally taking the plunge and starting to dose vodka today.

My tank is over 2 years old, and has had a caulerpa problem since I first realized what the "plant" on my one piece of live rock really was. I run a Reef Octopus BH-100 skimmer and have for well over a year. I also keep chaeto in all 3 back chambers of the tank (it's a 12g AquaPod). I do weekly 10-20% waterchanges and all my tests show undetectable levels of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate and have for a loooooong time (I test weekly). Still I have bubble algae and turf algae growing amongst the caulerpa.

The tank is currently only LPS and zoas/palys, with one small frag of the Sunset Montipora since all my SPS were wiped out after the great power outage of '08.

I plan on dosing .05mL of vodka a day since I have roughly 10 gallons of water in the system. The corals I plan on spot feeding as usual, and eventually dosing aminos.

Fingers crossed!

Charlie · « **Reply #33 on:** November 27, 2008, 10:12:07 »

How do you guys deal with the low O2 and how do you address low phosphate levels? I know someone is going to say low phosphate levels???- duh. Most hobby grade test kits will not read low phosphate levels. How do you determin when you have reached your "maintenance" dose? I have contemplated using the voda method myself but I would have to agree with Joe here. I think I have dealt with just about everything coming and going. I currently have cayno that just will not go away (just enough to be annoying) and right now I am dealing with dinos. I just don't believe there are any quick fixes in this hobby. Hopefully some type of carbon dosing will show some type of positive results long term in the future but so far research has not shown this to be so. This dino outbreak is really trying my patience. I may try carbon dosing short term but am still on the fence. I already have a CO2 issue in my house and really do not need to complicate things.

apelaston · « **Reply #34 on:** December 23, 2008, 01:28:07 »

Any updates on how ur guys dosing is going?

Charlie · « **Reply #35 on:** December 23, 2008, 10:16:42 »

I was kinda wondering the same thing. I posted a few questions almost a month ago and never got a response.

Jon in SW Ohio · « **Reply #36 on:** December 23, 2008, 14:47:57 »

This is definitely not a quick fix...

I'm still dosing daily, and the main thing I've noticed is the Caulerpa isn't noticeably growing. It's still alive and green where it's at, just no new growth stolons what so ever. Bubble algae has declined a bit as well, but probably only by around 20%. Cyano is minimal, but still on the couple exposed parts of my big Acan from Hurricane Ike power outage damage. I have to scrub the tank glass around once a week or so, but that's still the same as always. The skimmer pulls out a little bit more than it was before, but there's also now 4 full grown Mexican Turbo Snails adding to the bioload.

It's hard to say if the vodka is what's limiting Caulerpa growth though since I've still got my share of Asparagopsis in the tank. The last time I had an Asparagopsis outbreak, it out competed the Caulerpa too. It can thrive in newly mixed saltwater so I'm guessing it isn't too picky about low nutrients. There is ONE quick fix to Asparagopsis thankfully and I'm in the middle of it...Mexican Turbo Snails. In two weeks, 80% of it is gone so now I can soon see if the vodka or Asparagopsis is what's limiting the Caulerpas growth.

I only have one SPS and it's a Sunset Monti. No changes in color so can't testify to color enhancing effects...just thankful the snails haven't bulldozed it onto an Acan or Micromussa yet.

Low 02 has never been a problem for me and still isn't...though I guess I have my fair share of "marine plants" oxygenating the water LOL

As for phosphates, I've yet to find a test kit that can measure my levels so can't comment there.

To sum it up, I've seen zero negative effects and the algae doesn't seem to rebound as quickly so I'm sticking with it. I probably need to up my dose soon but am taking it slow and steady for now. $4.00 bought me enough 80 proof vodka to last a year or more...minus what the girls take out for White Russians, so I'll at least dose that long.

Charlie · « **Reply #37 on:** December 23, 2008, 16:58:01 »

Nice update Jon. From everything I have read vodka dosing will not effect the cyano.

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #38 on:** December 23, 2008, 18:30:23 »

I have had my dose level at 1.5ml per 20 gallons of water. I havent seen really any decrease of red algae growth. Algae growth on the glass has decreased. I dont have the same polyp extension with my sps as before the vsv. especially with my millis. I started to dose aminos at 3ml for a 220 gallon system and noticed some of my acros actually loosing colors. I quite them and continued with the vsv. I have just decided to stop dosing and see what happens with the sps extension. Right now I dont feel the little gain that I have seen is worth the loss of my sps's polyps extension. I have since added 6 mangroves into my sand bed in my sump and hope over time they will help. I can live with what algae that I have but if I ever get a blow out of bubble algae I will probably try this again. My old tank had tons of bubble and I hated it with a passion.
Jeff

aquavista99 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 23, 2008, 20:12:48 »

Quote from: jjoos99 on December 23, 2008, 18:30:23

I have had my dose level at 1.5ml per 20 gallons of water. I havent seen really any decrease of red algae growth. Algae growth on the glass has decreased. I dont have the same polyp extension with my sps as before the vsv. especially with my millis. I started to dose aminos at 3ml for a 220 gallon system and noticed some of my acros actually loosing colors. I quite them and continued with the vsv. I have just decided to stop dosing and see what happens with the sps extension.

Jeff, is your red algae problem red turf algae or red slim algae? If it is red turf algae, which will thrive in SPS conditions, then your problem can be solved by adding mexican turbo snails. I rarely see bubble algae on wild reefs, but I have yet to find a natural cure to eliminate them in home aquariums. Emerald crabs did not work for me.

MSUJenn · « **Reply #40 on:** December 23, 2008, 21:23:24 »

That's a bummer Jeff. I'm sorry to hear about that. Atleast you were able to realize it and stop dosing before things got worse.

Charlie- I sent you a very long pm

.

yinyang · « **Reply #41 on:** December 24, 2008, 00:06:24 »

hey!!
aquavista99
try spider crab
i have some rock have bubble on it
the spider crab get rid all for me( he pop them then eat but i don't have the outbreak

)
for other hair algae i use turbo snail & kole tang it works wonder
red slimer algae use sand shifter star fish

CoralBeauties · « **Reply #42 on:** December 24, 2008, 06:12:57 »

I have the red slime. it is just a few areas here and there. Verper mentioned that it might be an imbalance within the tank but i didnt get a good chance to ask him about it. Too busy moving a 300 gallon tank at the time

I am not totally sure it is the vsv that is causing the reduced polyp extension. I should find out soon as the vsv works it's way out of the system.
Jeff

lazylivin · « **Reply #43 on:** December 24, 2008, 12:45:09 »

Quote from: yinyang on December 24, 2008, 00:06:24

hey!!
aquavista99
try spider crab
i have some rock have bubble on it
the spider crab get rid all for me( he pop them then eat but i don't have the outbreak )

One of these Giant Spider Crabs should do the trick

The funny thing is it would probably actually fit in your tank. Then after bubble algae is gone you could eat it!

yinyang · « **Reply #44 on:** December 24, 2008, 13:22:30 »

lol!!
i don't think he will only eat bubble algae

apelaston · « **Reply #45 on:** December 25, 2008, 00:07:23 »

Is that crab 4real. . . .wow. . . . .

MechanicalEngineer · « **Reply #46 on:** December 25, 2008, 00:18:19 »

Looks similar to my Christmas dinner tomorrow!

aquavista99 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 24, 2009, 15:24:15 »

Quote from: verper on November 08, 2008, 10:36:26

Yes. It worked beautifully for me but at some cost. I used the Prodibio Bio Digest and the Vodka/sugar/vinegar (VSV) method. If you have been reading about it, then you know you need a big skimmer for it to work well. You may have some red slime at first, but it goes away. I did.

Scott, do you have any good links you can post about the Prodibio Bio Digest and the Vodka/sugar/vinegar method to share? I manually removed 99% of the bubble algae in my system with the new tank move but I know it will come back unless I give VSV a try.

JoeAyers · « **Reply #48 on:** February 24, 2009, 16:07:22 »

Quote from: aquavista99 on February 24, 2009, 15:24:15

Scott, do you have any good links you can post about the Prodibio Bio Digest and the Vodka/sugar/vinegar method to share? I manually removed 99% of the bubble algae in my system with the new tank move but I know it will come back unless I give VSV a try.

Tim,

Be careful with the VSV/Biodigest. You already have an ultra clean system and VSV will just increase that. Usually you have to start feeding heavily at some point. Corals can only handle so much clean water or the will bleach.

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/vsv-total-organic-carbon-in-the-reef-aquarium/

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/the-vsv-method-faq/
Joe

verper · « **Reply #49 on:** February 24, 2009, 16:47:02 »

Tim,

I agree with Joe. You run a very clean system to begin with so just be very careful and start slowly. You will also have a hard time determining when you are at a Ultra Low Nutrient System level without glass. The glass will remain clean for up to 10 days without needing cleaned in a ULNS system. If you're treating your rubbermaid tub, it will be hard to determine when to cut the dosing back to maintainence levels. It will work on the bubble aglae.

Joe posted the main links. Another good link:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1449361&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

aquavista99 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 24, 2009, 16:51:48 »

Quote from: JoeAyers on February 24, 2009, 16:07:22

Tim,

Be careful with the VSV/Biodigest. You already have an ultra clean system and VSV will just increase that. Usually you have to start feeding heavily at some point. Corals can only handle so much clean water or the will bleach.

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/vsv-total-organic-carbon-in-the-reef-aquarium/

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/the-vsv-method-faq/
Joe

Thanks for the tips and links, Joe. My only issue is with bubble algae. I had a lot of it in my previous tank. Like SPS, Bubble algae seems to love 400 watt halides, lots of flow and super clean water. In other words, it absolutely thrives in my environment.

aquavista99 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 24, 2009, 16:56:01 »

Quote from: verper on February 24, 2009, 16:47:02

Tim,

I agree with Joe. You run a very clean system to begin with so just be very careful and start slowly. You will also have a hard time determining when you are at a Ultra Low Nutrient System level without glass. The glass will remain clean for up to 10 days without needing cleaned in a ULNS system. If you're treating your rubbermaid tub, it will be hard to determine when to cut the dosing back to maintainence levels. It will work on the bubble aglae.

Joe posted the main links. Another good link:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1449361&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Thanks, Scott! I will be moving the corals into my new starphire tank this week. I am turning the 300 gallon Rubbermaid tub over to Slandis3 on Friday so he can get ready for his new tank as well. Again, thanks for the tips and link.

verper · « **Reply #52 on:** February 24, 2009, 16:57:56 »

No problem Tim. Might as well sign up for a meeting while your online. What month do you want?

aquavista99 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 24, 2009, 17:01:42 »

Quote from: verper on February 24, 2009, 16:57:56

No problem Tim. Might as well sign up for a meeting while your online. What month do you want?

Not sure yet. I would like the new tank to get established before displaying it to the club

micki · « **Reply #54 on:** May 30, 2009, 08:13:04 »

So those of you doing the VSV meathod...how are your tanks doing? Do you all have a fuge and if so, does this effect your cheato and or macro algae growth? I really would like to see my coral color up more and I'm guessing (yes I need to get new test kits) it's in part due to PO4 and NO3. I run phosban 24/7. I just used the last of it and am trying to decide if I want to get more or try something different...

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #55 on:** May 30, 2009, 09:39:27 »

I think for the most part doing vsv removes the need for macro algea and GFO. But I know some still run.

I have been using the Prodbio (Digest and Bioptim) It has been working, so I'm a bit nervous go switch from the Bioptim to the cheaper VSV.

chromiumlux · « **Reply #56 on:** June 01, 2009, 19:15:51 »

Really good article on Melevs Reef about Vodka dosing. He shares how he does it and it does take a long time. Then you have to do maintenance afterwards. Great info on this way of ridding phos and nitrate from the tank.

micki · « **Reply #57 on:** June 02, 2009, 12:11:05 »

Thanks, I'll have to check that article out. I think I've looked at it before but it's been a while. Marc helped me quite a bit when I set up my 125 reef.

its fry · « **Reply #58 on:** June 02, 2009, 15:30:50 »

Quote from: udjustin on November 08, 2008, 09:54:11

I think Joel does beer dosing

ahahahah

I'm watching this thread. This is the first I've heard of this.
Does the proof matter?

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #59 on:** June 07, 2009, 12:16:17 »

Going to bring this thread back up.

I've been running my system using ProdBio (BioDigest/Boptim) I have liked this sytem because dosing is only required every 15 days. I have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4 using std test kits, been that way for close to a year. But the various strains of bubble algea in my tank are flat driving me crazy. I cannot pick them fast enough. I do get some Diatoms outbreaks too, but mainly after spoiling my Copperband with a good batch of brine shrimp. I do also have a DSB in my tank

So I'm going to start tinkering with VSV. I know everyone's system is different, but for those doing VSV, what ration of VSV are you using? Or who is just doing Vodka?

lazylivin · « **Reply #60 on:** June 07, 2009, 12:40:31 »

Quote from: Wall_Tank on June 07, 2009, 12:16:17

I have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4 using std test kits, been that way for close to a year.

If your ever in the area your welcome to bring a water sample by and I can test your levels with my Hanna Photometer.

TechGuy · « **Reply #61 on:** June 07, 2009, 21:10:28 »

I have used sugar, and I know guys are going to think I am crazy. This was one my 29G with 20G sump. The sand bed in my Display was 3", sump was 5" or so. NA:0, NI:0, A:0, PO, 2-5PPM (!!!). The PO3/4 levels I attribute to tap water I used in the beginning. Now I use RO water only.

So I tryed it. After the MAJOR HUGE bloom, all zeros, except my phosphates were at .5PPM and steady. I did lose a Clown, and Chromis. When it bloomed, it looked like semen, no joke. It was bad! But after wards, all was well in my tank. It took a week or so to clear up.

.5 May seem high to you guys. But Organic PO are required for life, and new growth of EVERYTHING.

I still have some hair algae growing, and thats fine. Its a good food source for my blenny, and probably a tang or two.

Bottom line is, it works. Its crazy I know. But it does work, and the algae is under control now. It took a major shock to my system to get it under wraps. And it does create a "monobloom" which will work its way out in the end.

I never told anyone I did this. Because people think its crazy. But chemically, and biologically its sound. It works, and it makes sense. I don't think you should try it. Unless you understand the chemistry, and know your system. In most cases its not needed. But if you fall into that group, who has a build up, thats not controllable. Well then, thats up to you. In my case, it worked, and very well to bring things into line.

Reefd Up · « **Reply #62 on:** June 07, 2009, 22:18:44 »

There are many people on here dosing something similar (vodka, sugar, vinegar, or a combo...and some others). I dose sugar and amino acids. Been doing that for quite a while.

I'm wondering how much you dosed though...it's supposed to be a VERY slow ramp-up of the dosing. An algae bloom shouldn't happen so quickly, you shouldn't lose anything (except Montipora corals...they seem to have trouble with it), and a tank shouldn't look like...well..yeah.

Phosphates detectable at 0.5 is still a bit high, depending on what you're keeping. I would try to get it to 0.03. Yes, PO is required, but at 0.5, it may hamper more than help.

TechGuy · « **Reply #63 on:** June 08, 2009, 08:53:44 »

I'm running a reactor now, in a much larger tank. The dosing, well I accidently dosed way to much in my top off water. Serves me right for mixing a few days worth at once

Reefd Up · « **Reply #64 on:** June 08, 2009, 17:25:52 »

Ah, that's right, I remember you saying that now (sorry.)

TechGuy · « **Reply #65 on:** June 08, 2009, 20:37:18 »

Quote from: Reef'd Up on June 08, 2009, 17:25:52

Ah, that's right, I remember you saying that now (sorry.)

Yeah, when dosing Vodka, stay out of the Vodka. It can give you a tendency to overdose, or forget you dosed.

Wall_Tank · « **Reply #66 on:** July 26, 2009, 08:31:29 »

I'm about 2 months into this, I'm doseing about 6ml of VSV daily. My bubble algea growth has slowed significantly, and th diatoms on the sand bed are going away too.

The skimmer is generating very thick foam, the foam doesn't really want to break down back into a liquid. This just pushes the foam out the top of the collection cup.

micki · « **Reply #67 on:** July 26, 2009, 11:53:28 »

Ok, so when I get home from Florida next month, I'm thinking about trying this...Any big do's or don'ts tips anyone has to offer?

2024 Ohio Reef Frag Swap

Author Topic: vodka dosing (Read 8503 times)

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Charlie

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Reefd Up

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