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Offline rancoo

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Ich Advice
« on: January 13, 2011, 11:41:19 »
My Atlantic blue tang has ich and My flame angel died last night from it, it was eating so i thought it would be ok.  I have read all sorts of different stories, where people don't Quarantine because the ich is always present in the tank.  But, on the other hand others disagree that ich is not always present in the tank.  So my question is I have the Tang who has ich and I also have 2 blue Chromis, blue velvet damsel, and a lawnmower blenny.  Should I quarantine them all?  what should i dose them with if i do?  Stupid ich. 
-Brad
110 Gallon (48x18x30)

Offline motley

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 13:16:18 »
i would catch all your fish and qt them with some quick cure.  i had a yellow tang that had ich and it spread to all my fish and killed around $300 in fish in about 3 days. but the tang made it and now i cant put my hand in the tank with out petting him. lol

Offline Sunny

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 13:26:05 »
Here is a sticky from another forum. Seems to work, people have had great success with it.

http://www.livingreefs.com/hyposalinity-treatment-ich-t29672.html

slandis3

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 13:33:22 »
This was written by Joel some time back and should cover most everything.



I have never found Kick Ich and similar products to work well if at all. I am betting the reason your fish looked better the day after starting treatment is because the parasites on your fish matured and fell off to reproduce. The meds do not treat the parasites living on your fish, they kill their off spring during their free swimming stage.

Get the fish out of the tank and get them in a stable system where you can use an ionic or citrate type copper ASAP. (except for the powder blue tang - more on it later) It is imperative that your water quality stays correct in your quarantine system, test and correct as needed. I would suggest that you buy Sea Chem's Cupramine copper treatment & buy either Red Sea's or Instant Ocean's copper test kit. I suggest these kits because they are correct for measuring cupramine's level. (some test kits are chelated copper and would read incorrectly)In the quarantine tank, Maintain the copper level @ .20 to .25 PPM for no less than 14 days even if the fish look cured. On the first day of treatment add approximately 1 Ml. of Cupramine per 10 gallons of water, 48 hours later test the copper level and adjust accordingly, (example; if your test shows that there is .10 PPM copper, add a half dose "5 Ml. per gallon" ) Test the copper level every few days and adjust accordingly. After 14 days, start performing small water changes and incorporate a good quality activated carbon into the filtration system that is maintaining the quarantine system.The carbon will reduce residue copper in the water.Keep them in the system for another 2 weeks of so and watch them closely. If necessary, repeat the entire process if the parasite starts to show up again. Add Salt water Vita chem to your fish food and to the water of the quarantine system to help boost the fishes immune system too.

As per your powder Blue, that is a tough one. As Tim Indicated, they are not real fond of copper treatments and often die from it. How I deal with Powder Blue tangs (which is not often - I avoid them because of how problematic they are) is a 30 gallon or larger bare bottom quarantine aquarium that is filtered & heated appropriately. Over several days, bring the S.G down to 1.010 and maintain it at his level for about 2-4 weeks. The "Ich" like parasites most likely will not survive the lower salt level. After a month or so, slowly bring the S.G back up to a more normal range (1.023 to 1.025-ish) After that, I don't have good advise, putting it back into the main aquarium could start the entire thing all over for you. If I were going to keep a Powder Blue, it would be the absolute last thing added to the tank to help minimize out brakes caused from the introduction of a new fish or invert. (rocks & corals can carry eggs or cysts too). A very small % of Powder Blue tangs do well, it is not common to have one survive long term or at least with out issues. The rare occasion that one does well with out significant effort on the part of the aquarist is some what of a fluke or just plane old luck.

Fresh water dips can be a good method of ridding the parasites from the fishes body but it will not kill the off spring living in the tank. I often fresh water dip our fish if I suspect that there is a problem but I also simultaneously treat with an appropriate medication for what ever the situation is. DO NOT USE RO/DI WATER to fresh water dip your fish. It is imperative that the fresh water be the same temp & PH as your aquarium water. RO/DI should be neutral (PH of 7.0) Either use dechlorinated tap water if your tap water is similar to your aquarium or mix up some buffer into your ro/di water until you have achieved a similar parameter to your aquarium water.

As per the 125, a few things can be done. Just simply not having fish in the aquarium for 4-6 weeks will stop the active parasite population, they need hosts to keep the life cycle going. The UV sterilizers are not going to do much, they are too small and have many limitations to them. (another long subject) Put the 18 watt on the system that you put the powder blue in, it might be more useful there. Some water changes and substrate vacuuming will decrease the parasite population too. If your a fan of UV sterilizers, a 40 watt or larger with a water flow of 200 GPH or so would do much better. It's large enough that with a slower flow rate the exposure to the light will have a much more effective kill rate. If you want to do Better, get an Ozone Generator and use your protein skimmer as the reactor. This will serve many beneficial functions. Ozone will kill & destroy just about everything it comes in contact with. It is very efficient at killing parasites (UV is very limited), it is very efficient at killing virus and bacterium (UV is not effective on either) and it will significantly improve your water quality. Ozone will greatly decrease the organic waste load in your aquarium decreasing the rate of organic build up (nitrates - phosphates, etc..) It won't get rid of existing values but will slow down production a great deal. You must use a controller with the ozone generator but Red Sea makes a great little all in one set up that is very simple to use. It is called the Aquazone 200 deluxe. If you have the extruded Euro Reef protein skimmer, you will need to replace it with a better one if your going to use ozone. The ozone will brake down the lower cost materials. If it's a cell cast acrylic type as most of the euro reef skimmers are, you have no worries.

Offline Kenn

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 14:17:30 »
As Always a fantastic Joel Post :)

Great reference BTW !!
Currently doing a 75g build | http://ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=16275.0| tanks of the past : 26g Bowfront LPS and Fish| http://www.ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=4858.0 || 37g a little of everything | http://www.ohioreef.com/index.php?topic=7751.0

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Offline rancoo

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2011, 14:45:22 »
ok great, thanks
-Brad
110 Gallon (48x18x30)

Offline cyberwollf

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2011, 16:14:58 »
This was written by Joel some time back and should cover most everything.

:) soon as i read the title i was hoping someone pasted that post
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Offline Viggen

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 16:43:47 »
yea, better off being safe and treating all fish

I prefer coppersafe from Mardel, about $20 at Jacks & one of the coolest things with this is it's about impossible to overdose the copper.  Unlike many of the other types of copper which have a very narrow range for treating Ich & just above that it can kill fish.

I have also had good luck feeding with garlic in the food.  It's kinda funny.... my power blue doesn't get ich but my hawian trigger (black durgeon) does....... I have been.  He would have small outbreaks of ich (he needs a bigger tank I think) & I started soaking his food in garlic & it has kept the ich at bay.....

300g tub o fish

Offline discus513

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 06:18:38 »
When I first started in FW i used to get ich all the time, One way i have found to prevent it is smaller water changes, and dont clean your filters and a water change at the same time, if you do make it a very small water change, since I have started doing this, my problems have pretty much went away. I have 24 tanks running right now, so I dont want to have to treat fish, mostly FW. and like I said this has worked for FW, i am thinking it should be the same for SW. I know this doesn't help right now but i thought I would try to help fore the future.

Offline rancoo

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2011, 12:59:14 »
Will copper be ok with the blenny?
-Brad
110 Gallon (48x18x30)

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2011, 18:10:52 »
Rancoo I don't recall is your tank live rock and fish only or are there snails, crabs, inverts or corals in there as well?

Offline rancoo

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2011, 19:32:10 »
Yes I have live rock and inverts, but i have a 20 gallon quarantine that the tang is in for now and a 10 gallon that the 2 Chromis and the Blenny is in
-Brad
110 Gallon (48x18x30)

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 23:14:22 »
There are a couple ways to handle ick. What Joel posted above I am sure would work he has lots of experience. There is another method that I use so thought I would share it with you. Hypo-salinity.

To do this remove just the inverts to your 20g and keep all other fish in your display tank. Then take 50% of the water out of the display and top off with RO/DI water. (Be sure it is same PH and Temp, May have to add some baking soda. Don't add Soda Ash)  Should be a salinity of 10. Any pods you have as well as any algae will die. So will the ick. Leave the tank like this 45 days. At the end of the 45 days bring the salinity back up over a weeks time. All ick will be gone. After that as long as you put all new fish in QT HypoSalinity for 45 days before adding to your tank you will never have ick again.

The reason I recommend doing it this way in your situation is because keeping your new tang and other fish in that small QT that is not cycled will be next to impossible to control ammonia. Will take lots of water changes, likely every other day. Plus changing the environment of a sick fish is stressful. When you bring your salinity down to 10 in the main tank you may get a bit of a cycle from dying pods, worms, algae. In my experience it is negligible and wont kill the bacteria. Something to watch for though. Here is a link to more information if you choose to go this route. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I4/hyposalinity/OST.htm

Offline rancoo

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 15:06:02 »
thank you lazy
-Brad
110 Gallon (48x18x30)

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Ich Advice
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 23:26:55 »
np, how is the blue tang doing?

 

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