Monti's Dying

[MechanicalEngineer]

So, while I was out of town this weekend, a couple of my Monti's started to go downhill.  Thankfully, Will was home, and was able to let me know.

My M. Confusa (spongodes...whatever) is completely white, but still has polyp extension.  It has receded along the base fairly far.  My M. Peltiformis has lost the majority of color, but still has polyp extension.  It too has receded along the base.  My Sunset Monti has lost some color in one area.

Specs:

Salinity:  1.027
Amm:  0
Nitrite:  0
Nitrate:  0
Phos:  0.03 ===>  explained later
pH:  8.4  ===>  explained later
Calcium:  350  ===>  explained later
Alk:  9.2 dkh
Mag:  1350

When Will called me, I told him to stop dosing because I thought maybe the pH had risen too high.  My test kit isn't the best for it...and it's reading 8.4.  This is one possibility.  So, that's also why the calcium is a bit low.  I'll bring it slowly back up.

Then, I had the thought that I had recently changed my phosphate media.  I also changed brands.  I used the recommended dosage.  But, I figured that since I had recently done it...and the monti's were recently going, that they could be related.  So, Will unplugged the phosphate reactor.  Now I'm having a small outbreak of algae.

There are no pests noticeable.  Additionally, all other corals look great.

Any ideas???   

[slandis3]

What brand of phosphate media where you using and what did you switch to?

[MechanicalEngineer]

I was using PhosBan and switched to what I think was called PhosLock or something similiar.  I hadn't heard of it before, but figured it was the same stuff. 

[slandis3]

I would switch back to phosban and see what happens. There could be something your tank dosnt like about the new stuff.

[quicksilver]

i was told phosban by 2 little fishies is the best you can get.

[reefman]

ROWA®phos is the best!

[JoeAyers]

How old are your lamps?  I've had Montis of all kinds react odd when the bulbs shift. Total color shifts have occured in a matter of days. If all else fails water changes fix everything. If I was you I would do about 40-50% water changes every other day until your params are back in line. Make sure you check your TDS of your makeup water so you aren't adding more phos when doing water changes.

[MechanicalEngineer]

Looks like the recession has ended...but they're looking pretty bad still. 

I've always used Phosban, but was in a pinch, so I used the other stuff.  I'm going to order some RowaPhos.

My lights are almost a year old (HQI).  I'm ordering bulbs in 2 weeks.  I don't know if the lights are shifting, but I've heard about a year is ok for HQI's. 

RO filters and DI resin have all been changed regularly...TDS is fine.

All other corals seem fine. 

 

[seand]

Another thing to look for is condensation dripping into your water from anywhere...

Someone in CORA had condensation on some HVAC that was dripping into a sump.  The water was leaching metal off the ductwork (nickel) and hitting a copper plumbing pipe, then dripping into the tank.

He lost some sweet acros, and once he figured it out and pulled the metals out with ROWAphos, the death tank turned nice again.

[MechanicalEngineer]

Wow...hm...that's odd.  Horrible, but odd.  No, I've checked for metals, wood, and other contaminants.  No duct systems near the tank either. 

The two corals are still getting worse.  The "confusa" is pretty much entirely gone.  The peltiformis is still hanging on.  It's getting worse to watch every day.  Thankfully, the other corals are doing perfectly.  I have almost 20 other Monti's that are doing great...plus acroporas and others.  I just don't get it.   

[MechanicalEngineer]

Ok, I'm bumping this back up with pictures.  Both corals pictured are still extending polyps, but have lost almost all zooxanthelle.

The first picture is of my Monti "confusa, spongodes, whatever" before:


Now (minus a piece I chopped off to look at):


Underside:  (Notice the hole)




Topside:  (the brown spot is the top side of the hole)



M. Peltiformis before:



M. Peltiformis now:



All other corals seem wonderfully fine and happy.  The hole on the "confusa" really makes me wonder...looks like a type of burn.  (Shields are intact on MH's).  But, the bleaching is entirely covering the coral.  Please help!

[JoeAyers]

Are any of your other montis having issues?

[MechanicalEngineer]

Nope, just those two.  I have about 20 other Monti's...no issues.  They do share the same rock, but they're on opposite sides.  Slightly different flow, different lights.

The hole looks like a hydrogen sulfide bubble went up and burnt the "confusa" to me.  I don't know if that's possible or not.  I also don't think it'd kill the coral. 

[MechanicalEngineer]

I posted this on RC, and everyone that responded thought it was low potassium.  Never would've thought of that. 

Sponsors, do any of you have a potassium kit and/or potassium to dose the tank? 

Worst case, I'm going to switch salt brands to see if that helps if I test low. 

What do you guys/gals think?

[MechanicalEngineer]

Ok, after doing some research, I'm pretty positive that low potassium is my problem.  There's really not much information out there, but I found some really helpful people.

Thanks to everyone at the local aquarium stores that I've called asking about this.  It seems that fauna marin makes the only potassium hobby kit that I could find.  There aren't many companies that make a straight potassium supplement.

Here's a great post I found on the Zeo forums:

"A potassium leak[deficiency] is relative easy to indicate. It first starts with a fading pink on Stylophora, Pocilopora & Seriatopora, followed by weak / no growth an STN in this corals.

After this you notice weak / no growth in Montipora, especially plate forming, with fading coloration turning to brown, followed by STN.

Acropora stop growth, fading to brown, become lighter tissue with washed out coloration, followed by tissue lost (STN or RTN). Blue corals only show light blue coloration.

Corals also lose their possibility to stay in strong light, tissue get burned in corals they are placed in the highlight areas, while normally they where healthy.

This situation can be caused by different things, for example heavy stocked tanks (lots of consumers), a leak of this element in the used salt mix, export via strong skimmer etc.

I had exactly those problems and within a week, after dosing K-Balance the problems have gone. I use the product since 2 month and my corals come back to how they looked before. My tank is heavy stocked and strong skimmed. In the back of the tank I have a strong / wild growth of Montipora digitata which has become very huge over the years. It looks like Montipora corals consume more potassium than others.

A hobby test kit is not available, and it also looks like that most of the K-test kits available on the market (Merck) can only be used for freshwater. Hopefully a company producing hobby test kits will realize the importance of this element to measure.

While I had a massive potassium leak, I have dosed 50 ml for three days, followed by a 10 ml dosage daily for a two week period (320 gal system). Now, after everything looks fine (growth & coloration, stop of STN & RTN) I cut the dosage down to 5 ml twice weekly. I have not observed darker tissue with this dosage. A strong accumulation of potassium can be indicated by tissue lost, beginning from the tips.

I highly would recommend to adjust the dosing regiment for this product to blue coloration & a normal growth of corals. If both is OK, the dosage should be stopped for a while until the problems can be observed again.

G.Alexander"

This is exactly the problem I've been having, but never put all of the symptoms together.  I have about 20 different Monti pieces, so they must be straining my system. 

I currently use IO salt (which tests fine for potassium according to AdvancedAquarist studies), but I'm going to try Red Sea Coral Pro since I have some sitting around for a couple of water changes.  I'm going to go try to find some potassium supplements at a health food store now too.

I HIGHLY recommend NOT dosing anything you're not testing.  I'm going to simply because I'm desperate right now.  I've consulted several seasoned aquarists and feel that this is my best course of action. 

[JoeAyers]

How big is your system? 40G display with what?  I would do like four 50% water changes each day for 4 days to get levels in line if you think that is your problem.  I don't like the idea of dumping any chemicals in without testing. Do you have the other issues talked about below with other caps or your acros?

[MechanicalEngineer]

It's a 40g with a 20g sump...so about 60g total volume.  I don't like the idea of dumping chemicals into my aquarium without being able to test for them either, but weekly water changes apparently aren't enough.

I've slowly had every symptom in that order as described.  It's been downhill, slowly but surely.  I never noticed it until it got to this point.  My pocilloporas have lost all pink and have begun slightly to STN.  I've lost two Seriotoporas to RTN.  The Pocci's have also slowed in growth.  I was complaining to Scott recently how some of my "blue-tipped" acros are losing the blue coloration.  My acro's are all browning even when my phosphates and nitrates were low.  Some of them have lost coloration...to the point where I thought I might've been running too low of a nutrient system.  Now some of my acros are starting to STN.  My other monti's are starting to not look so hot too now.  It's definitely getting worse by the day.

I'm going to start with some more water changes.  I did three last week, and it seemed to slow the problem, but now it's picking pace back up.  I can't find any potassium chloride locally, so I'm going to order some and a test kit.  With that many Monti's in such a small water volume, I think I might just be using it up too quickly.  It's the only solution I've found that seems to make any sense.

[JoeAyers]

What size water changes are you doing?  Maybe try something like 20% more frequently to add the trace back. Aren't most iodine supplements potassium iodine? Maybe you could try it in small amounts based on the directions on the bottle.

And if all else fails, I will have a 240 for sale in a few months...

Joe

[MechanicalEngineer]

I believe they are potassium iodide or something like that, but generally in order to raise the potassium by 5%, I think it raises the iodide by 35% or something like that.  It's not effective as a potassium supplement.

I've been doing 10% weekly for the past year and a half...just started dosing Ca, Alk, and Mag in addition.  I guess I'll have to step it up to 20% or 2 x 10% now. 

Eh, I've been limited to a 120g for this house.  I'm going to start buying parts for it in a week.  Yay!  I should have it up and running in about 6 months.

[verper]

Joe's advice might be better only because if you are low on potassium, you might be low in magnesium, stontium, iodine, and all of the other trace elements that all of the coral are using up.  Just dosing one might solve that problem but bring on another.  I'd even do an initial 50% water change with water that has been mixed for at least 24hrs and has been adjusted for alk, calc, and ph.   I would use the Red Sea Pro to get things back in order just because it is basically dehydrated sea water and is supposed to have all of the same trace elements as natural sea water.   


Remember the issues with the dropping alk you had a while back?  I think your small water volume along with a fully stocked tank could be promoting some of these issues.  Especially since you changed over to MH lighting and have a lot more growth.  That upgrade may need to move forward some    Or a bigger sump.