what am I doing wrong?

[Blown76mav]

Ok,

I have been checking (and adding) my alk every day sometimes twice to three times a day.  Here about a week ago I noticed some things not looking 100% sps mainly...  I tested and found my alk around 5 (ya I know) so I started using limewater to top off, got the alk up around 8 and my ph went a little high, normaly its 7.8 -7.9 so that was ok.  I kept watching Ph and its now steady 8.2.  My alk is back down to 5 and I've been dosing B Ionic Alk to the tune of 30-40 ml at a time.  I can't seem to get it above 7.5 now......

I use to use IO salt, but have recently switched to Kent.  I'm sure I know where the problem is but dang I've now got 3 buckets I don't want.......and sps that is stn'ing......errrrrrrrr.

[Blown76mav]

Oh and before anyone asks

Temp  80*
SG 1.205
Ca  450
Mg 1450
No3 0
No4 0
Po3  0

everything else checks good.  it isn't affecting all the sps, only the ones I really like it seems.  Birdsnests green and pink, Blueberry bush, and a few others.  The zoa's and LPS seem fine.  The starfish are good, fish are good.  How much Alk B-Ionic can I add in a day without nuking the system?  And where is it going?

[jd]

SG 1.205

Well... thar's yer problem...

[Blown76mav]

duh 1.025 sorry....

[jd]

Figured. Sorry I can't offer any actual advice

[Reefinmike]

I have had terrible experiences with Kent salt. Once they switched to the buckets with the yellow 2-3 years ago, everything went bad. When I used the newer kent stuff, it almost took down one of my tanks. The ph from the kent was way low, and so was alk. Switch back to IO, and in the meantime, add baking soda to bring up the alk.

IO is a solid product, stick by it

[Reefinmike]

try dropping ca to 400-420 and mg to 1300. I cant find the exact link I saw a while ago on reefcentral, but, the analogy is that Ca, Mg, and Alk are like fitting marbles into a jar. you could have high MG, High Ca, and have it impossible to get to the optimum alk. lowering your CA and Mg closer to natural reef levels will hopefully make it such that any alk you add to the system wont precipitate out. 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

[jungliztkruger]

try raising sg to 1.026     i almost certain thats what sps really like

[Reefinmike]

yeah, that^^^^ natural reefs sg is 1.026-1.027. I have always kept mine at 1.027

[slandis3]

Thats weird Lonnie I am using the same salt with great resluts. Did you switch all at once or did you start mixing Kent and IO and slowly swicth over?

[Blown76mav]

Slowly, now I'm out of I/O and this.

[CoralBeauties]

This might sound stupid but what test kit are you using.  My test kit measured how much titrate it took to change the color of the test water.  Then plug in the measurement into the chart and read the results.  At one point I would have .1 left in the tube and put that into the chart and was reading way low when I should have been putting .9 into the chart which was actually high.  I felt like an idiot but it was a simple mistake and caused me to really add a ton of alk to raise my alk level when it were actually already high and I was making it higher.
jeff

[Blown76mav]

I'm using Salfert for my Ca, Alk and Mg.  API for Po3 and PH and I/O for the rest.  Never had this trouble before.  I can usually tell when my Alk gets around 10 because it irritates any open cuts on my hands, I haven't felt this the whole time.  I'm using a refactometer that I have tripple checked the calibration on.   I've added 11 small frags but on a tank this size I wouldn't think that would be an issue.  I've also tried spot feeding at night, no help.  Some SPS are doing great while others are not looking so go.  All came from people who have excellent tanks, no pests etc.  I added a 400w MH, but have slowly been upping the time its on so I don't burn the corals.  Some are under this light but most isn't.  The only other addition to the tank has been a MP40w which I know isn't a problem.  I just would like to know where all this Alk is going, I think I've added enough that I could charge the water and run my car's on it for a year.

[slandis3]

did you add all the frags at once?

[Joel]

Double and triple check your magnesium level, even have it tested by another kit. This has the symptoms of low magnesium levels.

I agree too that adjusting your calcium and alk levels to the lower end of the target range is a good idea. Risky to have them both high and it's not beneficial.

One way or another, the carbonates are being precipitates out of your water and both of the above scenarios cause it. (that is where your alk is going) Adding more carbonates will only worsen and perpetuate the problem.

Check the substrate in your system (sand beds) for clumping or crust? You probably have calcite crystals somewhere in your system (the precipitates)

Doing water changes with water adjusted to parameters you desire before adding it to the tank should be helpful

Joel

[Blown76mav]

I add the frags ove the course of about 4 days and only two were over an inch.   

I'll have to see about finding another Mg test kit being stuck in Lima sucks......

  My Mg has always read 1450-1500 no matter what salt brand I've used which I thought was weird as well but seemed ok.  I' m using a crushed coral bed about 2-3 in deep.  I'll check when I get home, but I don't think its crusting over the conchs and narisis snails seem to keep it stired up pretty well.  I'll also check the refugium, it has sand for a bed about 5 inchs or so. 

so I should be shooting for around 8 alk and 400 Ca? or lower yet?

Thanks for the info guys.  Dave I may need you to take some SPS for a week or so......

[UDJustin]

I know when I switched salts from IO to Brightwell they suggest not changing more than 5 percent of your water at a time, until you have completely changed over the whole water volume.

[Wall_Tank]

I'll second the Mg.

I like the ELOS test kit for Mg for anything over 1300.   With SPS I'm keeping my Mg about 1500.

[Blown76mav]

Ok,

the sands not crusting over, can't seem to find any percipate anywhere, I'm gonna stop dosing Alk till I can get someplace and sometime to get a Mg test kit.  None to be had in this great town......  I've also got my SPS in a buddys tank for now(thanks Dave), I just hope its not too late. 

Would my phosban reactor have anything to do with this?  I added that about six weeks ago.  I am also running carbon 24/7 with a change schedule of 2 weeks.  Phos ban is changed at the 1 month mark. 

[lazylivin]

Adding GFO can cause a small dipp in Alkalinity. However it should be fairly short lived. Although I have dosers that add the same amount of Alkalinity four times per day, when I change the GFO I do add a extra manual doses to balance it out.

Adding 30 - 40 Ml to your tank 2-3 times a day does not seem like anything out of the ordinary to keep your Alk levels up. It is quite possible you are just seeing your corals and coraline algae mature which is consistent with the amount of Alk required to dose each day. Additionally you changed to a reef quality salt that probably also increased coral growth furtherer increasing Alkalinity consumption and the new salt had less alkalinity then the original IO salt.

[Blown76mav]

Ok, I made a new batch of saltwater today.  Your gonna love this....

Alk 14.4  what in the world is going on???  I did wipe the can out with vinegar and then rinsed with RO water  I know the vinegar will make Alk read high but I didn't think just wiping out the brown stuff and rinsing would do that.

The SG is right at 1.025 perfect first time, water is clear.

Can I start pulling my hair out now?

[lazylivin]

Do you think the bucket of salt may have been poorly mixed from the factory?

[Blown76mav]

Something is off in the bucket.  I usually roll them around and turn them upside down before using just to remix the bucket in case something settles during shipping.

[HUNGER]

iv had that problem with salt once it made everything read off the charts  i would try a differnt batch of salt

[Blown76mav]

ok,

Made a hour trip to buy new test kits.  Here's the tank as of 10:20 pm tonight.

New API test kits                                                                  Old Sailfert Test Kits

SG 1.025                                                                              SG  1.025
Temp 82*                                                                             Temp  82*
Ph  8.2                                                                                 Ph 8.2
Ca  420                                                                                Ca 420
Kh  8                                                                                    Kh 8
Mg  1320 (same O'l kit couldn't find a new one)                       Mg  1450
Nitrite 20 ppm ( my old kit read .2)                                        Nitrite .2
Nitrate  0                                                                             Nitrate  0
Ammonia 0                                                                          Ammonia 0
Po4      0                                                                             Po4      0