Help - ph too high

[reefkeeper]

All - My ph is at 8.55 at the end of the day and 8.4ish in the morning.  Here's what I have: 120g, 55g fug, 2-400w MH on 10 hrs/day, 100+ lbs of LR with good coraline growth, 5 fish, 30 or so snails, 15 blue leg hermits, hammerhead coral, pulsing xenia (not pulsing), 1 med montipora, 8 small SPS frags.  My parameters are: ph 8.4-8.55, salinity-1.025, Alk-3.54 meq/l, Ca-310, NH3-0, NO2-0, NO3-20, PO4-0.  I don't have a Mg test kit, yet so I don't know what it is.  However, based upon other posts, I suspect it is low.  I started my tank 8 weeks ago and my ph was steady at 8.3 for the first 6-7 weeks.  The only thing I can think I did was add the pulsing xenia and about 30 snails.

Based upon a Randy Holmes-Farley article, I tried adding 120 ml of distilled white vinegar over the weekend to lower the ph.  It worked temporarily, but then came back up.  Tonight, I added some Kent Trace element because it has Ca and Mg.  How do I get my Ca up and my ph down while keeping my Alk in range?  I know I am stressing my animals ... and myself.  Help!!!  Thanks -Jeff

[Logzor]

How are your animals looking? 8.55 pH is pretty high for having 10DKH. That is surprisingly high pH unless you are dosing a bunch of limewater.
 
What are you measuring pH with and are you sure it is accurate? What alkalinity test kit are you using, could this be off? I am suspect that your pH is actually lower or you DKH is much higher. I could be wrong though.

I assume you have some open windows in the room since your pH is so high. Shutting off fresh oxygen from the outside could help lower it.

Try not to stress yourself out unless everything in the tank is melting.

[Wall_Tank]

1st....do you trust your test kits.   When did you calibrate your PH probe last?  How long has this been going on?

[Joel]

Adding live stock will not increase your ph so the addition of the snails and Xenia should not be the cause.  What is the Xenia mounted on? It's rare but I have seen cases where persons have made cement "rocks" or plugs to graft corals on that drove their ph up. (didn't cure the cement properly) I doubt this is the case though since there is xenia living on it.

What is your method of testing your ph, alk & ca? Have you had a second party test them for you to compare results?

What supplementation have you been adding to your tank and how much & often. It is almost impossible for PH to rise in an aquarium with out something being added to raise it.

Good job at posting all your water's parameters too, that information is helpful at determining (or eliminating) some possible causes.

Your welcome to bring over a water sample to compare if you'd like. We are now only open on Friday 3-8 and Sat 10-3 but if  you'd like to meet at the shop one afternoon, just let me know when and I'll see if I can meet you there.

Joel

[Zeppelin]

When did you calibrate your PH probe last? 

Thats what I would look at first, if its all of a sudden and you haven't changed anything.  Last couple times my ph read high out of the blue, it was a calibration issue with the probe.

[reefkeeper]

Thank you for all your responses.  The good news - My ph meter needed recalibrated.  The bad news - By overreacting, my ph was now 7.93 this morning.  I use Salifert Ca and Alk test kits and they are dated Feb and Mar 2009.  They are a little outdated, but I don't imagine that is causing the numbers to be too far off.  I will recheck tonight.

In the meantime, any suggestions for getting my ph back up, as well as getting my Ca balanced with Alk?

[Reefd Up]

Here's something to help you balance the Ca with Alk...

http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html

[Wall_Tank]

If the PH probe was that far out of calibration, I would watch it.  It maybe going bad.   I've had good luck with Pinpoint probes.  I have one that is almost 2 years old, last calibration was about 6 months ago.  When I checked it last week, Before and After readings were within  0.05 of each other.

PH of 7.9 is not worth worrying about.   I think I would just monitor the ph while getting your calcium and alk back in line.  For an alk of 3.54 meq/l your calcium should be around 430 or so.  That's a ton of calcium.

Here is the updated calculator page, it has a bunch of chemicals that will do the trick.
 
http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/chemcalccf.html

Just do it slow......

[reefkeeper]

Everyone - Thanks for the help.  Things are coming back into alignment.  My ph is holding at about 8.00 at night.  I bought some Dowflake and made Randy's Recipe 1.  The calculator said I need to dose over 1800 ml, so I dosed 600 the first day.  By day 2, my Ca came up from 310-350, and my Alk actually lowered a little from 3.54 - 3.31.  I dosed another 600 ml today, so I expect my Ca will be around 390 tomorrow.  Will my ph continue to inch up? 

Joel - Thanks for the offer on double checking my ph, Ca, Alk, and Mg.  I will try to stop over tomorrow night with some water.  Also, if you have a Mg test kit, I'd like to buy it.

If anyone is looking for Ca or Mag, I purchased a 50 lb bag of Dowflake Xtra or $15.49 and a 50 lb bag of Mag Chloride Hexahydrate (branded Freez Gard) for $15.69 from Robinson Salt Supply outside of West Carrolton.  They are really friendly, helpful, and wonderful people to deal with.  Their number is 937-866-1898. 

The Dowflake Xtra has 83-87% Calcium Chloride, 8-14% water, 2-3% Potassium Chloride, and 1-2% Sodium Chloride.  The Mag says it is 100% Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate.

Again, thanks everyone for the help. -Jeff

[hdyoung]

Two thoughts -

Echoing what other people have said - I think that it's nearly impossible to have your pH swing out of the "ok" range, as long as you don't add anything too crazy, keep calcium and alkalinity in range, and keep the water reasonably aerated. In addition, I read about people who have successful tanks at 7.9 to 8.3, and even out of that range sometimes. pH is one of those things I stopped measuring a long time ago. Maybe it'll bite me later. Who knows.

I used that freeze guard mag for a while and had no problems with my tank. However, I also read that the issue with unknown sources of mag chloride is that they can possibly have significant trace amounts of ammonia, which is somehow a byproduct of the manufacturing process. Even though it might be labeled as "100%", there might be  0.01% ammonia as a trace, for example. This can add a measureable amount  of ammonia to your tank in terms of ppm. That being said, I used it without issues.