My poor experience with Mag pumps...

[Reefd Up]

I've lost it today.  Here's my experience with Mag pumps...

I bought a Mag 5 from Jacks when I first started this hobby, and paid dearly for that pump.  It had a one year warranty...and guess what...the pump quit restarting after being unplugged only one month PAST the warranty.  Fine...whatever....

So, I bought a Mag 12 as an upgrade.  It had a three year warranty.  (I purchased it online...and assumed the impeller was included in that 3 year warranty since the website did not state otherwise.)  Guess what...three DAYS PAST the one year point, the impeller shaft broke in half.  Oh, and guess what...the impeller is only covered for one year.  You've got to be kidding me......  So, I had to shell out more money for a new impeller.

Now, I'm at my wits end with these pumps.  I bought a new Mag 9 from someone in the club secondhand.  Didn't touch it for a while since I was busy with the wedding.  First time I plugged it in, it ran for about a day fine...then I woke up the next morning to hear an awful grinding noise.  The plastic of the impeller blade shaft had split down the side.  AHHHHH!  So, now I'm crossing my fingers the person I purchased it from bought it less than a year ago...and still has the receipt...and is willing to return it for me.  

I can understand from an engineering perspective that you want your equipment to fail immediately after the warranty period.  That's getting the most bang for your buck in terms of manufacturing costs, etc.  But, seriously, most companies design some tolerance into their design so they don't have customers getting slapped in the face just DAYS after the warranty runs out...or the pump fails immediately.  I know I don't have any case for a warranty repair, but it's just frustrating to me that a company would design so little tolerance into their equipment when other companies don't.  Needless to say, I'm writing a letter of complaint, and I'm switching to another brand of pump.  AAAAHHHRRRGH!

[slandis3]

Sorry to hear about your bad run in with these pumps. I have heard other people say that these newer pumps are junk. I have been through a few mag 5's. If I had the money I would go with ehime sp?.

[Reefd Up]

Last I checked, the Eheim's don't get up to the flow I'm wanting.  Grr.  There aren't many internal pumps at all with that sort of flow.

[slandis3]

Why can't you go with an external?

[Reefd Up]

We don't have room under the tank and they're noisier (living room).

[Secondgen]

Go with the QuietOne pumps Nikki. They have always worked very well for me. They are dependable, and quiet. They have models that flow all the way to 3600 gph at 270 watts.

[slandis3]

oh, well hum you can get a red dragon. You may have to take out a second mortgage though.  .  By the way my snapper is silent.

what about a quiteone 5000 1330gph  or Maxi-Jet 4500 Utility Pump 1,175 gph

[Secondgen]

I have heard good things about the Marineland pumps as well Mike.

[TechGuy]

I can understand from an engineering perspective that you want your equipment to fail immediately after the warranty period.  That's getting the most bang for your buck in terms of manufacturing costs, etc.  But, seriously, most companies design some tolerance into their design so they don't have customers getting slapped in the face just DAYS after the warranty runs out...or the pump fails immediately.  I know I don't have any case for a warranty repair, but it's just frustrating to me that a company would design so little tolerance into their equipment when other companies don't.  Needless to say, I'm writing a letter of complaint, and I'm switching to another brand of pump.  AAAAHHHRRRGH!

Dude, impellers are a wear and tear item. Hence reason for cheap, readily available replacements. These are not high end pumps either.

I can understand from an engineering stand point the need to make things cheaper, so costs are low, and sales are high so I can keep my job. And from an engineering standpoint how hard it would be to design, and manufacture a product that fails like clockwork as you suggest.

I would chock this up to bad luck My mag pumps are covered in so much crap, and calcium build up I don't know how they restart. But they keep working, seemingly no matter what.

[Riderc82]

My setup came with a Mag 5 that had been in operation for some time before I purchased it.  A couple days after I purchased my aquarium I had to buy a new impeller but I would say it is because the previous owner was trying to get every last drop of water out of the tank so we could move it and he sucked up quite a bit of sand.  In the three years since I've had the pump I have cleaned it once and purchased one impeller.  I usually shut down the pump to feed and sometimes it will have a hard time staring so I just unplug it and plug it back in several times and it will restart  . 

[Reefd Up]

Dude

First off...I'm a girl...see my signature.... 

Impellers are a wear and tear item. Hence reason for cheap, readily available replacements. These are not high end pumps either.

If an impeller is a "wear and tear" item on these pumps (which, I agree, they are), they shouldn't be 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the pump itself.  Say you spend $60 on a Mag pump that has a 3 year warranty.  The impeller is $20 (rounding for ease).  The impellers last only 1 year.  Within 3 years, you've paid for the pump...and the equivalent to a new pump.  Compared to other similar cost pumps out there...the Mags should have better quality.

And from an engineering standpoint how hard it would be to design, and manufacture a product that fails like clockwork as you suggest.

Are you an engineer?  Did you miss taking design optimization in school??  That's exactly what they spend a whole semester/quarter teaching...how to make components fail at a specific point.  Then...you practice doing it & studying it in the rest of your schooling.  Just curious...and had to ask.  Many low-end components are made to fail to keep maintenance costs up...which is where most of the income is.  They save money by using parts that won't last a long time...the part fails right after the warranty...and voila...you're back for parts.  Higher-end components build some slack into their design so they don't have upset customers banging down the doors.

[jd]

I have to jump in and mention the tinge of irony that the class on strategic product failure is called "design optimization"  

[Reefd Up]

I have to jump in and mention the tinge of irony that the class on strategic product failure is called "design optimization" 

  Good point.  JD, Justin, Wes, etc...did you guys take design op?

[jd]

  Good point.  JD, Justin, Wes, etc...did you guys take design op?

I haven't yet, maybe when I go to a real college...

[Blown76mav]

Nikki,

The last impeller I bought for my mag 7 was like 3 dollars at the home improvement center.  $20 sounds like a Jacks price.  I took my old one with me and asked the lady where the pond pumps were.  This was December last year, she looked at me funny and pointed to  the back of the store, sure enough MAG repair parts.  Cheap!!!!!!  I can still get them at this price today.  Oh and a MAG 3 impeller is the same as a MAG 7.

Lonnie

[Reefd Up]

Hm, good info Lonnie!  Thanks!  However, I know the Mag 9 & 12 have separate impellers for ponds versus aquariums (there's an A & B version).  I'm guessing Lowe's will only sell the B version (pond)...which is what my Mag 9 is.  Sweet.  Doesn't solve the issue of the Mag 12, but you might've just saved me a bundle. 

[cyberwollf]

  Good point.  JD, Justin, Wes, etc...did you guys take design op?

No Im EE,  eletronics pretty much make themselves obosolite with time. But there are tons of 20 year old 386s that still boot up great. Not that there's much you can do with them now.   

[Blown76mav]

My local improvement store isn't a lowes (we do have a Lowes, Menards, etc..) its more of a mom and pops type locally owned called DeHavens.  But I guess you could try the big boys I'm sure they carry them as well.

  If not let me know and i can run to the local one and see if they have what you need.  These guys had the MAG 7 in the same box you find at a fish store, about 2/3 of the price, but more than I wanted to spend to fix a simple problem.

[jd]

No Im EE,  eletronics pretty much make themselves obosolite with time. But there are tons of 20 year old 386s that still boot up great. Not that there's much you can do with them now.   

I still use my 386, you insensitive clod! 

[jungliztkruger]

Nikki,

The last impeller I bought for my mag 7 was like 3 dollars at the home improvement center.  $20 sounds like a Jacks price.  I took my old one with me and asked the lady where the pond pumps were.  This was December last year, she looked at me funny and pointed to  the back of the store, sure enough MAG repair parts.  Cheap!!!!!!  I can still get them at this price today.  Oh and a MAG 3 impeller is the same as a MAG 7.

Lonnie

i remember this night...

[TechGuy]

First off...I'm a girl...see my signature.... 

If an impeller is a "wear and tear" item on these pumps (which, I agree, they are), they shouldn't be 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the pump itself.  Say you spend $60 on a Mag pump that has a 3 year warranty.  The impeller is $20 (rounding for ease).  The impellers last only 1 year.  Within 3 years, you've paid for the pump...and the equivalent to a new pump.  Compared to other similar cost pumps out there...the Mags should have better quality.

Are you an engineer?  Did you miss taking design optimization in school??  That's exactly what they spend a whole semester/quarter teaching...how to make components fail at a specific point.  Then...you practice doing it & studying it in the rest of your schooling.  Just curious...and had to ask.  Many low-end components are made to fail to keep maintenance costs up...which is where most of the income is.  They save money by using parts that won't last a long time...the part fails right after the warranty...and voila...you're back for parts.  Higher-end components build some slack into their design so they don't have upset customers banging down the doors.

As stated earlier, quit buying them at the pet store. Get them from Lowes/Home Depot. Much cheaper.

[Reefd Up]

I try to support our LFS as much as possible...I'd rather see them in business...and we give enough other business to Lowe's/HD/Menards anyway.

[Joel]

The deal that Lonnie got at the hardware store was either a mistake or a clearance sale. The wholesale price of those impellers are much more that the price he paid. Either way, good score and let everyone else know the next time you find that great of a deal

I can relate too, I have got a bunch of pond related stuff at lowes for WAY under wholesale costs in the past. Look late summer or early fall to get great deals.


As per the mag drive pumps, I have a couple dozen (at least) of them in operation on service accounts. They are hit and miss, some last for years with no problems others are constantly problematic. I go through pump covers and impellers pretty regularly on some of them. Some of it can be attributed to sand, snails and hermit crab shells getting sucked through them like in sumps for example, excessive calcium carbonite can screw them up too. But I have had them on fish tanks with none of these conditions being exposed to them develop problems for seemingly no reason. Normally they get noisy or they don't start back up after being turned off.

The difference between "pond" mag drive pumps and "aquarium" mag drive pumps is the length of the cord (longer on the pond models) and the screws on the pump cover. THe pump /impeller cover screws on the aquarium models are stainless and are saltwater safe, the screws on the pond versions are not stainless and are not saltwater safe but are fine for freshwater aquariums. If a person has a pond version, the screws can be swapped out easily to make it salt water safe. The "A" and "B" versions I believe were just a slight modification to the impeller and pump cover and was mag 12's and up that this change happened. Finding an "A" version new in the box is pretty rare these days.

Eheim is one of the best submersible pumps available. I have on that is still working that I have had since about 1987 or 88. It's on it's 3rd impeller but that's pretty good for a 20+ year old pump. Unfortunately, they don't make pumps large enough for bigger aquariums, in the past I have had to use 2 or more of them on like 125's and up.

Sorry for your run of bad luck Nikki, if I can help in the solution to your problem, let me know how.

Joel

[fishnuttoo]

love joels posts.....

i have the pond version mag 5, paid 13 bucks at lfs end of season (right about now)

cover is different, screws are different, dont  know about impeller...  no problems... should have bought more


replacing screws is good idea, what screws are reef safe....

[Joel]

You should be able to get the correct screws from the manufacturer, if you are unable to get them, I have them as well.

Joel