Spin off on Cyano thread

[~reefchik~]

Instant Ocean and cyano. 

Who thinks they go hand in hand?

[harleyrider]

Never had any problems whats so ever with I/O

[Aquatic Specialists]

I believe IO has somthing to do with it.

[TechGuy]

I believe IO has somthing to do with it.

I'm with you. The I/O I used in the past was utter crap.

I know that each bucket may mix differently, but thats not acceptable. I/O contains Nitrates and Phosphates. I have tested my R/O water, and I/O fresh mixed and detected both.

[Reefd Up]

Used IO off and on for almost 3 years...never had a breakout of cyano other than the initial cycling of my tank.

[jeremyt]

dont ever bash I.O. 

[lazylivin]

I used IO for about 10 years without Cynao problems. At least none that I can recall. Maybe just lucky but I don't think their are any nitrates or phosphates in it. Use Tunze salt currently. Here are a couple of RC TOTM that use Instant Ocean. This doesn't really prove or disprove anything other then some are very successful with IO.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-11/totm/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/totm/index.php
http://www.reefcentral.com/totm/2001-08/index.php

[Joel]

If a person is having an algae issue, cyano or otherwise, it is not because they used Instant Ocean salt. It's more typically a hardware or husbandry issue.

Instant Ocean does NOT contain Phosphates or Nitrates, that is a completely false statement. If a persons test kit indicates that instant ocean does contain phosphates & nitrates, they probably don't have a quality test kit.

Excess nutrients are what most nuisance algae issues are fueled by, Better maintenance practices will cure outbreaks. Cleaning and adjusting protein skimmer several times per week is helpful & often not being done. Assuming a person has a good protein skimmer and it's adjusted properly, it should need cleaned several times per week.

Increasing water flow can help with preventing localized pockets of nutrients that can trigger cyano. In other words, keeping matter suspended to be trapped by filtering media or removed by skimming prevents pockets of organic matter that will feed algae.

Elevated ORP levels seem to deter cyano. This may be due to aggressive oxidation of organic matter through ozone injection but it works very well.

Using "chemicals" to treat cyano is not sound responsible advise either. Not only do these products kill desirable organisms but they only treat the symptom. If you don't correct what aloud the algae to be there in the first place, it'll be back again. Plus killing the cyano releases the nutrients it had banked in it's tissue, you just re-released what you don't want in your tank! These significantly over priced products are just erythromycin, if you have a situation where you feel you need to kill cyano, you can buy Mardel's Fresh Water Maracyn for a ton cheaper and have the same results, a small pack is like 6 or 7 bucks.

I have to coment on this; A quote from Techguy "I use Kent, do a weekly 20G water change, and only rarely dose Ca. I hated IO!" Here's a little industry secret for you. Instant Ocean and Kent marine Salt are virtually identical. Aquarium Systems & Kent Marine buy the raw materials to make their salt from the same company. Both Aquarium Systems and Kent marine are owned by the same company, Central Pet. Just humorous to me that you bash one and rave the other when they are the same product with a different label.

Instant Ocean does have it's shortcomings for many with reef aquariums but these are easily compensated for with the addition of carbonite, calcium & mag supplements. Instant Ocean is perfectly fine as is for many aquariums, especially fish tanks and non stony coral type "reef" aquariums. I've used instant ocean for over 20 years and have had only 1 time where it had a problem which aquarium systems admitted to there being a problem with that batch. That's a pretty good track record.

Anyway, look else where for algae problem, don't blame the salt...

Joel

[micki]

IO has always worked fine for me...

[chromiumlux]

I use Kent salt and I must say I am pleased with it.

[TechGuy]

I have to coment on this; A quote from Techguy "I use Kent, do a weekly 20G water change, and only rarely dose Ca. I hated IO!" Here's a little industry secret for you. Instant Ocean and Kent marine Salt are virtually identical. Aquarium Systems & Kent Marine buy the raw materials to make their salt from the same company. Both Aquarium Systems and Kent marine are owned by the same company, Central Pet. Just humorous to me that you bash one and rave the other when they are the same product with a different label.

Instant Ocean does have it's shortcomings for many with reef aquariums but these are easily compensated for with the addition of carbonite, calcium & mag supplements. Instant Ocean is perfectly fine as is for many aquariums, especially fish tanks and non stony coral type "reef" aquariums. I've used instant ocean for over 20 years and have had only 1 time where it had a problem which aquarium systems admitted to there being a problem with that batch. That's a pretty good track record.

Anyway, look else where for algae problem, don't blame the salt...

Joel

I understand you may have experience and I respect that. Others may respect that, and thats fine.

But they ARE NOT the same salt. Period. Anyone with half a brain who has used both knows better. Not only that, but right here in this very forum is a salt comparison posted. Clearly not the same salt, its ridiculous to say they are.

IO Never mixed clean for me. It was a pain to mix also. Sticking to the bottom. It never mixed consistently either. Sometimes 10 cups did the trick, other times 15. Thats not quality, thats crap.

What I find "humorous" is that all over this forum the general consensus is that you get what you pay for. Well, it also applies to IO.

I challenge all of you IO users to make the switch to Kent (which wasn't even a part of this discussion until your post). Give it a try.

When I switched I immediately noticed a difference.

The slime remover is simply and antibiotic. You are right, it will release nutrients into the water. But as I stated, it works fine if you follow the directions. They clearly state to remove as much of the cyano as possible. You probably shouldn't use it unless you really need to. Your right, look at the source. Which could possibly be your salt, adding fuel to the fire.

[harleyrider]

whats  the differents in price everybody talks about i get I/O for 44.95 for 200 gallons i thought kent was higher than that!! No problem with I/O at all easy to mix, disolves very quickly and clean, no nitrate or any other bad readings with it ever!!!!

[~reefchik~]

I've cycled quite a few tanks, and never had cyano this quickly.  But then again, I would still tend to blame this rock I got from the neighbor faster than the IO.  I wanted to ask the question because I see a lot of discussion along these lines at other reef forums.

I did get the newer version called Reef Crystals (which, btw, didn't that used to be made by a different company?)

I'm getting a handle on it, pulling it out when I can, and blowing water across areas on the sand.  The refugium is getting pretty maroon, too.  And the skimmer ought to help too.  I also have some Salifert test kits coming soon, and I want to test my IO water after changing the cartridges, and then test the new saltwater I'm storing, and compare them to the tank water.  (PO4)

And while we're at it, how do you test for TDS coming out of your RO system?  I suspect my membrane is done for.

[harleyrider]

if your r/o is shot that will cause your problem!

[jeremyt]

And while we're at it, how do you test for TDS coming out of your RO system?  I suspect my membrane is done for.

tds meter

http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/Meters-c42.html

[Reefd Up]

Lazy & Reefchik - there are some threads out with some people that have been able to rid their tanks of cyano by dosing Vitamin C (Brian, I'm still trying to find you those other threads.)  I don't know why VC would work when other carbon-dosing methods wouldn't...but anyway.  Just thought I'd mention it. 

[Reefd Up]

Oh, and if anyone cares, (I didn't know this), cyano has been linked to BBD (black band disease) in the Caribbean.

[~reefchik~]

if your r/o is shot that will cause your problem!

I actually considered buying a whole new RODI system, they aren't that expensive.  I have two new cartridges in place and two more new ones on the shelf.  And then Joe reminded me that you can never let a membrane dry out.  Oops.  I'm pretty sure this one did last time we moved, and I had no idea.  So now do I get a new membrane for what, about $60-70 and still not have DI water, or maybe bite the bullet and get a new system.  

[~reefchik~]

Thanks for the info, Nikki.  I didn't know that about Vit C or black band disease. 

Jeremy thanks for the link to the meter.  Not expensive, that's a good thing 

[Reefd Up]

I actually considered buying a whole new RODI system, they aren't that expensive.  I have two new cartridges in place and two more new ones on the shelf.  And then Joe reminded me that you can never let a membrane dry out.  Oops.  I'm pretty sure this one did last time we moved, and I had no idea.  So now do I get a new membrane for what, about $60-70 and still not have DI water, or maybe bite the bullet and get a new system. 

If you need a new membrane...and don't have a DI chamber, I'd just go ahead and buy a new system.  A new membrane plus, what...say $30 for a DI chamber...and you're pretty much to the cost of a new system with everything included.  I bought a used system to start...and I've been troubleshooting it for 2 years now.  No matter what, I can't get below 12 TDS...so I'm pretty sure the membrane section is letting water bypass it slightly.  Ugh.  It's just not worth the hassle to know your water is good.

Like Joel talked about earlier, I'd definitely try to find the root cause of the problem.  If you're this concerned about your RO unit, I'd bet money that's where the problem is.  I'm sure someone local can let you borrow a TDS meter just to get an idea of your water quality.

Until you can get your RO situation fixed, maybe try purchasing your water from a LFS or club member.  Just a thought. 

[harleyrider]

i have read numerous post on the net about cyano, and probly 99 percent were related to bad tap water, and or bad R/O water and reported when changed the problem cleared up on its on within a 2-3 day period, nothing was said about salt being bad, if you do your research you will find, that most of the brands of salt are the same, just some add things like cal, or trace ele. but salt alone is the same..

[jeremyt]

if you just add half i.o. and half oceanic it turns out to be a great mix. also mixes great for me but that may be because i use a 660gph pump for 15 gallons.

[~reefchik~]

RSCP?

[jeremyt]

RSCP?

red sea coral pro salt

[jeremyt]

The pump could have something to do with it

But mixing two salts is just a pain in the rear. Get a real salt to begin with, and save the trouble

its easy just 2 scoops of one 2 scoops of the other then a scoop of 50/50 and presto  perfect alk/mag/cal