Refugium question

[~reefchik~]

How do you know when it's time to prune the caulerpa and chaeto out of your fuge?

I was amazed to look in there this weekend and find a massive mat of chaeto floating on the surface.  I took at least half of it out and mashed it down so it doesn't float anymore.

How much is optimum?

ETA:  I also saw a bunch of planaria in the fuge, too.  What is that about?  Should I be worried?  There are none in the display tank.

[cyberwollf]

Chaeto is going to grow to fill the space, when mine gets looking tight, i remove half. I think it starts to slow the growth if it "feels" cramped.

[HUNGER]

i agree

[Reefd Up]

The algae should have enough flow and space to "tumble freely".  So, if it's started to get restricted by its own growth...time to trim it!

As far as planaria goes, what you do about it really depends on the species.  Some species of flatworms are not toxic but will cover every surface, others are very toxic, and a few others are pretty much benign.  Additionally, different species require different treatments to kill them off or maintain their population.  Flatworm Exit is generally the magic wand to kill of all planaria, but it's been proven ineffective against some species.  Any way you could post a picture of them?

[Aquatic Specialists]

I always prune off what has become a lighter color and try to get back down to the darker green center.

[~reefchik~]

My refugium doesn't have enough flow to cause "tumble" of even a softball size chaeto - which is what I started with.  I guess the best I can hope for is gentle laminar flow.

I can try to get photos tomorrow and post them.  They are light tan with a red dot.

Justin, I guess I did right because I chopped off all the lighter colored stuff from on top (it was growing out of the water)
and got rid of it.  I suppose I should see if someone wants it, but when I saw the planaria I thought naw...nobody will.  At least they aren't up in the display tank.  There are a lot of little white sponges hanging down from it, too. 

[~reefchik~]

Ok, here's a nice photo of the planaria:



Wow. it seems like I have 3 times as much chaeto again as I did on the weekend.   

[cyberwollf]

Do you see them in your display or only in the sump.  With all the talk you have been doing on them, i realized i have them too.     at least i am planning a tank teardown soon so i can treat each section seperatly

[Lost Floridian]

This is Nikki (Reef'd Up) on Will's account.

Those are bad...very toxic to coral and fish upon their death.  When they are alive, they can cover corals and prevent corals from obtaining enough light.  They can die for any reason.  In fact, if one of them becomes stressed or frightened, it can release a signal to the entire rest of the group to all die at the same time.  

Chances are, you have more than you think you do.  Best thing to do is siphon out as many as possible as often as possible.  Once you think you only have a couple, Salifert Flatworm Exit is so far the only proven treatment in-tank for this type (controluvids or however you spell it.)  Coral Rx was proven better for out of tank preventative treatment on them though.

I'm ready for bed otherwise I'd post more.  I'll send you some links to Melev's flatworm siphon and how to treat.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[~reefchik~]

Do you see them in your display or only in the sump.  With all the talk you have been doing on them, i realized i have them too.     at least i am planning a tank teardown soon so i can treat each section seperatly

Only in the sump.  Nothing at all in the display.

Do I still need to worry about them, since they're only in the sump?
Seems like they will eventually end up upstairs if I let them keep going. 

[~reefchik~]

Ok, thanks Nikki.  I'll look forward to more info.

[cyberwollf]

I searched my entire DT very thoroughly and didnt see any (doesnt mean they arnt there) Mine are only in the chaeto section of my sump.  I have had them for about a year I'd guess, but i've never seen more than 15 or so... i think I'll move the fish to the QT durring my rebuild and treat the DT.  then treat the sump separately.

do the eggs free float? will the water i transfer to the QT for the fish contain eggs?

[~reefchik~]

Ah ha...some time well spent googling.  I have Rust Brown flatworms (aka planaria).  


Apparently nothing to panic about according to WWM.  Since they are not in my display, I'm going to take some measures against them in the refugium.  I'll try and increase flowthrough, and then if that doesn't work, maybe consider putting a 6 line wrasse or mandarin in there to eat them.  

Cyberwolf, check out the link at WWM, they act like having these things is sort of a normal part of life.  There are some good recommendations that do not include chemical holocaust, either (nice to know). http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pestflatwrmanthony.htm] [url]http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pestflatwrmanthony.htm[/url]  and this:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/flatwormfaqs.htm

[cyberwollf]

Not to thread jack, but this is what i got. And again, <20 and only in the chaeto section of the sump.

Bad pic from cell phone

[~reefchik~]

Pretty darn good photo.  At least your acrylic is clean.  I had just wiped mine off a couple days ago but obviously left spots of SW.

Sounds like we have the same issue.  How's the flow through your fuge?  Apparently that's what they like, areas of slow flow.

[cyberwollf]

Pretty darn good photo.  At least your acrylic is clean.  I had just wiped mine off a couple days ago but obviously left spots of SW.

Sounds like we have the same issue.  How's the flow through your fuge?  Apparently that's what they like, areas of slow flow.

its very low flow.  I'll kill the boogers in a week or so when I redo the sump.

[~reefchik~]

Here's another one to ponder.

How nasty do you let a refugium get, anyway?  I scraped all the coralline out of mine today, and pulled more chaeto out, along with some caulerpa and fed it to the display tank, seeing's how my Foxface will eat ANYTHING GREEN!! 

But yuck.  It's fairly nasty in there.  I know probably that is sort of the idea of a refugium but really...it's got to be a nutrient sink in there.  I don't like it. 

Perhaps I could consider a pre-filter of some sort?  I do have some long sections of polyfilter in the overflow after the refugium before the water hits the end of the sump with the return pump and skimmer.  And it doesn't really capture a lot of anything. 

So what do you guys with refugiums do for maintenance?  Anything? 

[jd]

I took my true refugium down because I think it was causing problems. Now I just grow cheato in one chamber and keep powerheads in the rest to keep detritus suspended. A frequently changed filter sock can keep that problem to a minimum, but don't over look extra flow in a fuge.

[cyberwollf]

+1 on the filter sock

[HUNGER]

I took my true refugium down because I think it was causing problems. Now I just grow cheato in one chamber and keep powerheads in the rest to keep detritus suspended. A frequently changed filter sock can keep that problem to a minimum, but don't over look extra flow in a fuge.

+1

[~reefchik~]

I don't think I could use a filter sock on this contraption.  The 2 PVC tubes extend way down into that first chamber of the sump and are locked in place with almost no wiggle room.   I'm thinking maybe something inside the overflow but then that's scary because if they get too gorpy, I could get a backup and overflow my overflow   

I'm sort of considering sucking all the sand out of the refugium and leaving just a couple rocks and the macroalgae.  Then again my water's testing fine and you know what they say about fixing things that ain't broke....

It just look gross to me.  Like a badly neglected tank.

[Riderc82]

I don't think I could use a filter sock on this contraption.  The 2 PVC tubes extend way down into that first chamber of the sump and are locked in place with almost no wiggle room. 

I wish I would of taken pictures of my setup, My drain line (PVC) went all the way to the bottom of my sump.  I talked to Joel and he suggested a PVC pipe cutter ( I was going to use a circular saw ).  My drain side PVC also extended to the bottom of the sump but I bought the tool Joel suggested to me from Lowe's for $10 and it worked great.  I added two unions to my plumbing, took out the sump and added baffles and once the silicone is dry I'm going to add my new skimmer and a filter sock (I've never used one).  I just completed all this today the plumbing literally took less than ten minutes.

[~reefchik~]

I'm not going to remove this sump in this lifetime, if I can help it.  Unless maybe it's to move it to a whole new tank and stand.

I have an All Glass wooden stand with the center post that you have to remove to get the sump in and out - huge pain, and a bit nerve wracking also (although that center brace is supposed to be "non functional" in a support sense, we found after leaving it out with the full tank on top for a week or so, that the top wood section under the tank did in fact sag a few fractions of an inch and we had to push hard to jack it back up when we had the sump installed and ready to replace the center part).

I'm thinking that there *might* be a way to unlock those two input tubes - cut them off shorter and still use a filter sock.  I'll have to go stare at it a while to figure out if it can be done. 

[HUNGER]

if theres a will theres a way

[Riderc82]

If you are talking about the PVC drain lines you can easily cut them shorter without removing them from the bulkhead with the PVC cutters I bought for $10.  If you do it you may as well put a union in there in case one day you truly have to remove the sump.  I can't wait for the morning my sump is going back in service.

[~reefchik~]

I totally don't get what this refugium is supposed to be doing.   

There's cyano growing in there now, along with bryopsis.  There are clumps of crap floating on the top and it's just disgusting looking.

Is that normal?  I mean, my display tank looks great, no problems.  Is that the point? 

I want to put the stuff out of the little new frag tank back in there on a rack (just some kenya tree and anthelium frags) and get rid of the temporary frag setup I had, as it's done what I needed it to do, and since I took almost all my soft coral colonies to Gerber last week and traded them in for new branchy live rock so I'll have places to stick new frags in the future. 

[HUNGER]

ya most sump dont look perrty after about 2 or 3 months when every thing gets up and running

[cyberwollf]

Agreed. As long as the crap grows down there it's all good. That's why most people run warmer lights over fuges. It encourages algea growth to eat your extra nutrients. However, if you have crap floating you might want to use a filter sock, just to help out on detrius and nitrates

[~reefchik~]

Ok, if you all say so 

I don't think I can do the filter sock thing, the way this sump is constructed, but I did stuff a bunch of good old filter floss down into the overflow coming off the fuge and dumping into the return pump/skimmer section.  At least I know nothing nasty is going to go back to the DT. 

I think I've been fooled by looking at photos of people's *new* refugiums - nobody ever shows their Garbage Dump Refugium off, do they?

[cyberwollf]

I dont have cyano in mine.  Probably just an indicator of excess nutriuents.  what kind of skimmer do you run?

[~reefchik~]

Vertex IN-100 skimmer.