DIY Skimmer & ATO & Heat Echanger

[DarinSchmidt]

Skimmer:
Well, due to school taking up so much of my time. I think i, and i regret saying this, may convert to a skimmer. With work, school, and business, I find myself forgetting to clean the skrubber every week like i should. So, i think, while I'm in school, to reduce my maintenance as i can leave a skimmer sitting for a long time as long as the waste trap doesnt over flow, this might be the route that I'll be going. So i'm thinking of doing a DIY skimmer unless i can find one for a good price to skim my 300g aquarium.

I was thinking of using a 5gal bucket, but thats as far as i have made it on the thought proess lol, it's been a long week. I have a 900gph pump that i could use. I was also thinking that i wouldnt need/want a waste trap, i want the waste to tube over to another bucket of some sort so that i can collect for a month with no issues. I'm thinking i will just dremel a whole in the lid of the 5gal bucket to put a funnel on top that will be siliconed and mounted to the lid then the 1/2" tube comes off the top of that and allows the waste to be dumped into another container big enough that if i forget about it for a month that it wont matter.

ATO:
Will have two float valves so that it is less likely to have anything bad happen, one valve will feed water to the other valve. It will be connected to a Carbon reactor/filter which is then connected to my cold tap water line. One valve water supply line will be connected to the next before the water is able to enter the tank. So hopefully a double failsafe will work.

Heat Exchanger:
Since the introduction of the 300g DT, not including the refuge, last winter the humidity got a little out of hand. So i am divising a plan to build a cheap heat exchanger that will:
have a humidistat to activate a relay switch that will activate 2 fans
One fan brings in outside air, the other pushes air out
It will have a tin foil core
Be mounted in the fishroom window as i will only need it during the cold months
will have a drain leading outside to expell any condensation so it will need to be in a plastic container of some sort

With a heat exchanger, there are two ways of doing this. 1) actually have the outside air brought in and the inside air blown out or 2) have the internal air pass over the foil core which will have cool air also flowing though causing condensation, removing the humidity from the air.

I'm kind of leaning towards option 2 as i feel that would save on the gas bill a little but i dont think it will be as efficient at removing humidity but option 1 will also bring in fresh air from outside which to me is a plus. With option 1 i think you will expell more heat than is actually transfered to the cool air coming in. ie. with the amuont of surface area to transfer heat to the cool area, i think that the warm air going out will be warmer than the air coming in and not an even transfer so for instance 65 degree going out and 60 degree air coming in presuming that the inside temp is 70 and outside air is 55 roughly. I havent actually calculated anything, just estimates and theories.


As with anything, this may take some time to accomplish as i have to find the time to make all this....

This is a bit off topic, but whenever i mention the size of my tank, it just sounds so small.... Maybe i need an upgrade.

[cyberwollf]

After playing with the DIY skimmer route.. i'll say just buy one.  The acrylic work is hard to make a good neck, and the companies have lots of research to find optimal width vs height ratio vs flow vs air ratio.  Its probably possible, but best just to save up IMO.

Also you cant really let a skimmer sit around for weeks and just drain.  Once the skimate gets coated on the neck it starts pulling alot less.  They really need to be clean at least once a week (but it only takes a few seconds to rinse the neck)

[DarinSchmidt]

Yeah, i was just saying that so if i dont get to it in that week that its not going to matter much. Unlike the Skrubber, you have to clean it othersize the underlying layers start to die and put the junk back in your tank that you were trying to get out. And if i use the 5gal bucket with a funnel, i'll still be able to take the top off easily to clean it. But i dont feel like spending 3-400 on a skimmer that can clean my tank when i'll be switching back over to a Skrubber once i get through school.

[cyberwollf]

ohh yeah forgot about the srubber dieing.  Cant you just make one 3-4x width so it can last longer?

[slandis3]

On the exchanger I am going to start working on my core this weekend. Just need to get the money for the "plates" between. I will start a thread and show How I will build it once I get part of it cut and laid out.

[DarinSchmidt]

ohh yeah forgot about the srubber dieing.  Cant you just make one 3-4x width so it can last longer?

Not exactly, the problem is once the algae get so thick, the light cant penetrate it to keep the under layers alive. Even with makeing the screen larger, you will have patching of thick layers. Plus i dont think that i would have enough flow for a wider screen and i cant make it taller as i dont have the room.

On the exchanger I am going to start working on my core this weekend. Just need to get the money for the "plates" between. I will start a thread and show How I will build it once I get part of it cut and laid out.

What are you using for the core?

[slandis3]

I am using aluminum sheet stock, with plastic spacers to separate the layers. I will set it on a 45deg angle to help the condensation run to the bottom. I am going to use 2 250cfm fans which should move plenty of air yet still give a slow enough reaction time for the air to exchange. If this works well I am going to double the size and build one for the house as well.

[DarinSchmidt]

sounds good. Thats what i'll be doign as well, using aluminum, not tin as i mentioned... I'm going to crinckle the foil up as well so that it will fause a lot of turbulance in the core which should help increase the efficiency.

[Boonjob]

After playing with the DIY skimmer route.. i'll say just buy one.  The acrylic work is hard to make a good neck, and the companies have lots of research to find optimal width vs height ratio vs flow vs air ratio.  Its probably possible, but best just to save up IMO.

Also you cant really let a skimmer sit around for weeks and just drain.  Once the skimate gets coated on the neck it starts pulling alot less.  They really need to be clean at least once a week (but it only takes a few seconds to rinse the neck)

I had considered making my own version of the hydor nano, for my daughter's tank, so I took some measurements(what I could find openly available) and tried my hand at shaping a few pieces of scrap acrylic I had laying around. I was able to shape it quite easily(way easier than I suspected). I started with a blowtorch on the material(later went to the oven), I had found that if I took away the heat just before bubbles started to form inside the material it was extremely flimsy and ply able(I just timed how long it took on average to form bubbles and shaved 20 seconds off of it; this was not needed for the oven as I was able to just set the heat). It remained this way for upwards of a minute at room temp and dried crystal clear(and far more brittle, as expected, but not shatter worthy; actually quite strong.) I used an air compressor to cool the areas or bends I wanted to lock in before moving on to the more ply able sections to create more curves or bends in that piece.

I was quite impressed with my ability to make the few shapes I set out to create.

I think I could easily replicate the hydor nano skimmer, but I am not sure I could replicate one for a price that would actually make it worth my time to build over buying....

[cyberwollf]

I had considered making my own version of the hydor nano, for my daughter's tank, so I took some measurements(what I could find openly available) and tried my hand at shaping a few pieces of scrap acrylic I had laying around. I was able to shape it quite easily(way easier than I suspected). I started with a blowtorch on the material(later went to the oven), I had found that if I took away the heat just before bubbles started to form inside the material it was extremely flimsy and ply able(I just timed how long it took on average to form bubbles and shaved 20 seconds off of it; this was not needed for the oven as I was able to just set the heat). It remained this way for upwards of a minute at room temp and dried crystal clear(and far more brittle, as expected, but not shatter worthy; actually quite strong.) I used an air compressor to cool the areas or bends I wanted to lock in before moving on to the more ply able sections to create more curves or bends in that piece.

I was quite impressed with my ability to make the few shapes I set out to create.

I think I could easily replicate the hydor nano skimmer, but I am not sure I could replicate one for a price that would actually make it worth my time to build over buying....

Square are actually easy.  there are good plans online.  There are a few threads where me and JD were making them a few winters ago.  Ever though they looked good, we never really got them to pull near what a commerical one would.  Definatly buy a quality needlewheel or venturi pump

[DarinSchmidt]

I dont think square is the way to go imo, but interesting none the less. There are several threads on RC of people using water jugs but I dont know yet if that would fit in my 55g refuge, nor am i sure yet if a 5gal bucket would. I'll figure something out once i have time.

[DarinSchmidt]

with the spark Slandis3 made with his ventless heater topic. It reminded me that i need to get on this.

I scratched the skimmer, dont feel like builing my own at this moment. But the ATO and the Heat Exchanger will be getting done before the end of the year. The Heat Exchanger i would like to get done by the end of the month. The ATO, i'm ok with using buckets of water ATM (at the moment).

So, I have been doing some research, and maybe someone can tell me this since Honeywell doesnt seem to know everything about their own products. With the Fan terminals off a thermastat (though I'll be using a dehumidistat), the outputs 24vac, but how many amps is? Thats one thing i want to know, but but it may be irrelivent since it can power a blower fan, i'm sure it can power something as small a a computer fan.

It's easier and cheap to just buy a nice dehumidistat, >$30, than to build your own for >$10, no soldering, has a turn knob for controlling it, etc.

So, once i get my exams done this week, looks like I'll be moving onto this project before it really gets cold and the humidity destroys my house

This will be a window insert kit I'll be making. Which can be adapted to anything really. I'm putting it in my fishroom  and there is a window and i have some sheets of 2" foam insulation, so i figured 2 layers, 4", of this stuff should do well.

[cyberwollf]

After playing with the DIY skimmer route.. i'll say just buy one.

I scratched the skimmer, dont feel like builing my own at this moment.

From one DIY guy to another... Good choice.  It was hard to lay down the cash for one, but I have never regretted buying it.

[cyberwollf]

So, I have been doing some research, and maybe someone can tell me this since Honeywell doesnt seem to know everything about their own products. With the Fan terminals off a thermastat (though I'll be using a dehumidistat), the outputs 24vac, but how many amps is? Thats one thing i want to know, but but it may be irrelivent since it can power a blower fan, i'm sure it can power something as small a a computer fan.

Just throw it through a relay and dont worry about it.  I have some 24v relays Slandis gave me awhile back if you need some.

[DarinSchmidt]

yeah, the new one i bought, i'm hapy with. I think the small skimmer i have is just junk, it likes to overflow from time to time for no reason. So with this new one, its sitting in the refuge and hot HOB, so if it does overflow, its going back in the tank and not on the floor

Found what i want to use for this heat exchanger:
http://www.performanceaudio.com/buy/Middle_Atlantic/FAN/2304 the fan
http://www.broan.com/display/router.asp?ProductID=2968 the dehumidistat

now i just need to get a good project box or something similar that i can line with foam/insulation, and get it all put together.

I'm going to use standard foil, i was debating on usint industrial foi, but i figured, thinner foil might be better so that it will allow the heat to transfer through a thinner material. This should be fun.

Just throw it through a relay and dont worry about it.  I have some 24v relays Slandis gave me awhile back if you need some.

Thats a good idea that i was looking into till i found the above dehumidistat. Plus with running a relay, thats another power source i would have to run up to power the fans. If i use the above dehumidistat then i can have 1 power cable ran up to it, it's 120vac and i found a good 120vac fan,4.5", i think thats a good size

[DarinSchmidt]

even better fan, only because its $20 cheaper

[Boonjob]

Check out parts express, I use them all the time, their fan prices are great... I use them to replace the fans going bad in fixtures. and they are local, just in springboro.

here is a 172mm fan with 176cfm
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=250-030

120mm with 76cfm   13.00 bucks
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=250-020


all there axail fans...
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?SEARCH_TYPE=main&WEBPAGE_ID=3&FTR=ac%20axial%20fan&SEARCHFILTER=ac%20axial%20fan&srchDesc=ac%20axial%20fan

[DarinSchmidt]

oh nice, thanks boon. Looks like I'll be buying from there.

[DarinSchmidt]

ok, Working on the heat exchanger. There has been some considerable condensation on a couple ceilings (mostly near the corners and the ceiling lights where it is the coldest). So i have ordered some parts, got in the Dehumidistat and fan covers, i forgot to order the fans...... so thats what im doing today.

Humidity in my house creeped up to 60, so i cracked a window in the Fish room for a day and the Humidity dropped to near 50 and noticed no more condensation except for in one corner (which may have already been there prior). So i was debating if a heat exchanger was the way to go or get a dehumidifier. But I'm leaning towards the Heat exchanger as having more benefits. I dont think that its much more efficient as its bringing in cooler air which then your heater has to warm, but its bringing in fresh air and i think warming the air is cheaper than cooling it like a dehumidifier does. Not sure, so dont quote me on that. But fresh air is a big plus to me, and its always really warm in the fish room, so that means that the heaters in there will prob do more work as i dont keep my house 80 degrees.

If i end up not liking it, its about $80 down the drain in parts. Oh and i will be ordering the relay as well.

These are the parts that i am getting:

The 120mm Fans Boon linked to http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=250-020
The Relay http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=075-122  <== Looks like I'll have to use this unless someone has a beter suggestion.
Dehumidistat http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PU9P5O/ref=oh_o02_s02_i05_details
Fan grills http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036WTDHK/ref=oh_o02_s03_i00_details  <== Thinking i should use some external vent luvers to prevent fain from getting in and such, but this is a test unit so i just bought the cheap stuff for now. Though i think i prob should just get it because then it would help stop excess air flow exchange while the unit isnt on....

It will be all ran on VAC. I'm not sure how many amps are passed through the dehumidistat but im sure it will be enough to power the fans. I'll be testing that tonight when i get home. I'm hoping that its just an AC passthrough. I'll see about getting the exchange core made tonight as well and the foam housing put together as well.

[Viggen]

I was also thinking of going the DIY skimmer route a whille ago but some of the really good skimmers are quite cheap thus hard to pass up.  Or just buying a used skimmer is also hard to beat price wise.  By the time all the parts are purchased for the DIY route.... same price or cheaper to just buy one. 

Heat/humidity wise I added a humidistat in the area where my tank sits.  When the humidity hits a certain number that I choose the fan kicks on and vents the air outside.  I just used a quiet and powerful bathroom ceiling fan since the room I need to pull the air from is about 14ft long & 3ft wide.... so not a huge area.  I purchased the humidistat & fan from Lowes. 

[DarinSchmidt]

I thought about just sucking the air out, but thats wasted heat being sucked out of my house. This way with the heat exchanger, i can at least transfer some of that to the new incoming air.

[DarinSchmidt]

Lazylivin mentioned to me that my walmart in-clock hygrometer may be off. So, as soon as i can, i'll see about getting another one. I agree with him, i dont know how reliable/accurate it is, so i'll be looking around.