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Author Topic: Refugium help.  (Read 1496 times)

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Offline Secondgen

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Refugium help.
« on: January 24, 2009, 16:57:49 »
Hello all, I need some advice on my fuge. I built a 3 chambered sump out of a 20L, and my fuge is not doing so hot. The sumps layout is first chamber tank overflow, and skimmer, the second chamber is return area, and the third and biggest chamber is the fuge with the other overflow outlet(my overflow from the tank is teed off before the sump. My problem is my cheato isn't doing anything, it just kinda fizzled out, and the fuge is being taken over by hair, and slime algea. I went and bought a brand new Ott light designed specifically for plant growth, and added a power head for more circulation. The display is starting to grow some hair algea now, and I think it is because my fuge isn't doing anything. I thought about draining my fuge, cleaning it, and getting a fresh bunch of cheato to put in there. I have seen other fuge setups with little to nothing as far as flow, and light grow cheato like crazy. What is my problem?

Offline Secondgen

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 02:32:21 »
Anyone?

Offline lazylivin

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 02:38:38 »
Nothing obvious is jumping out at me. Can we see a picture with the light on?

Offline UDJustin

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 08:50:44 »
how long are you running your lights on the refugium sump
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Offline Joel

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 11:01:33 »


A better design would have been to have all the water enter the first chamber with the protein skimmer, then flow thru a chamber with a 6" plus sand bed (macro algae would go in this area as well if you choose to include a vegative type filter) and then to your return pump area. The water entering the first chamber need to be mechanically prefiltered, I use sponge filters in the o/f box to trap the bigger stuff and then a 100 micron rated or less filter pad or sock at the sump where the water enters. These pre filters should be cleaned / replaced at least once per week, 2-3 times is better. I'm not saying that how yours is set up is wrong, I'm saying that I believe that it is better to have all the water flowing thru the filter to theoretically be exposed to all the filtering apperatus per pass thru versus the theretic 50% per pass thru as yours is set up.

 I like the lighting on my sump to run 12-16 hours per day and I run it opposite of my display tank with an hour or two of overlap. I use lamps that are 55K to 67K and concentrate the light over the macro algae area only. With that small of a chamber I'd use 40 power compacts with reflectors & the 67K lamps. (65 watt would be ok too) If other algae are over running the desirable algae, it could be an indication of the wrong type of light is being used (wrong spectrum). It also could be the source water that water changes are being done with. Are you using RO water?If so, what is the TDS of the Ro water? What are the aquarium waters parameters? Any phosphate or nitrates? Do you have any hard brown /green dots growing on your glass that is hard to scrape off?

Joel

Offline Secondgen

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 12:57:46 »
Thanks for the replys guys. Ok heres the rundown. Last time I checked all tank params they were within the proper ranges Amm=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=30, and Phos=unknown. The light cycle is on a reverse cycle with the display running about 12-14hrs. My source water I know is not ideal being treated tap water TDS=unknown. I do plan on purchasing an RO/DI unit when money permits. Yes I do have hard green spots on the glass in the display that I scrape off from time to time. The thing is all livestock fish/inverts are doing ok. The only thing that doesn't seem to be working with this system right now is the fuge. As for phos, and nitrates isn't the macro in the fuge supposed to soak this stuff up?

Offline Arcade_Guy

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 05:39:55 »
From my experience so far (not much), my chaetomorpha does better with longer photo periods, as opposed to exact opposite of the tank lights.... even running upwards of ~+3 to even 4 or 5 hours from the main lights.

It seems to grow more the more it tumbles due to flow as well... but then again i don't have a power head in my fuge, only the incoming water from the overflow. I make sure to spread it out and make it float every couple of days as well.

also i'd make the second chamber the refugium. Skim it first, then let the fuge pick up anything that could be absorbed that made if past the skimmer, then return water to the tank.

Again, i'm a total noob so i may be wrong, but that's what i would do personally.

Hope you get your fuge fixed soon! GL!!!

« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 05:43:04 by Arcade_Guy »
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Offline Joel

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 09:36:52 »
When was the last time you checked you water parameters? Ideally water parameters should be checked regularly enough that a pattern of what the aquarium does is determined and so it also can be determined if the maintenance and supplementation being done satisfies the aquariums needs. At least weekly tests should be done to learn what your aquarium does & needs. Your nitrates need to be closer to 0 ppm, this is a part of what is fueling the nuisance algae. You also need a phosphate kit to determine it's value and correct it if needed. It would not be surprising to hear upon testing that it is high, it needs to be 0 or at least very close to 0 ppm. What about your PH and ALK?

Those hard little dots are most likely diatoms being caused by silicates, I'm betting they are being introduced from using tap water. It is also likely other undesirable elements are being introduced as well and is contributing to the undesirable algae. Although I would not 100% blame the nuisance algae on using tap water, it is playing a roll in it. A quality Ro/Di unit or buying ro/di water will solve that portion of the problem. On a reef aquarium, some sort of devise that demineralizes your make up water really should not be considered a luxury item, it is a must have. Topping off with tap water between water changes just concentrated the bad stuff in our tap water in the aquarium. Might not be a problem early on but give it time, it will be.

Your light schedule on the tanks seems ok. How are the light bulbs? Are they older lamps (year +) What brand & type? Old light bulbs or cheap light bulbs, or even worse both old & cheap will contribute to nuisance algae in a big way. I can not give advise on the sump light because I don't know what an ott light is. Some report good experience with the hardware store bought type lamps, many report un-satisfactory to even down right bad experience with them. Cheato or calerpa that lives or survives (or dies) in a sump is not very desirable, cheato or caulerpa that has very vigorous growth to the point it need regular harvesting is what we want to have happen. Growth to the point of regular harvest is how the nutrient export takes place with macro algae. This vigorous growth often doesn't happen under weak or cheap lights.

As per your sump, if you don't have a thick, fine sand bed, natural nitrate reduction (NNR) will not happen. If your not properly pre filtering your water and or properly servicing - cleaning your pre filters, your sand bed in your sump can become loaded with organic debris (nutrient sink) and become a constant source of fuel for nuisance algae. Yes having a RDSB type filter with macro algae helps with nitrate and phosphate control but they have their limitations. I'd say from what your experiancing your system & maintenance practices have exceeded the filters limitations.

My advise;

Re evaluate your filter design and adjust as needed. Make sure your RDSB is as least 4" thick (6 is better in my opinion) with sugar size oolitic sand. Also make sure your existing sand bed is not loaded with debris, clean it if it is.

Make sure the water is being pre filtered very efficiently and regularly clean the pre filters, no less than once per week, 2 to 3 time per week cleaning the pre filters would be better. Remember that any debris in your pre filters is still in the water decaying and having a negative impact on your water, rinsing them to remove all that debris effectively eliminates that decaying matter (nutrient export).

Clean and adjust your protein skimmer to get it dialed in to operate at it's peak. They often need cleaning and adjusting weekly or more to keep them operating at their best (Another form of nutrient export)

Stop using tap water, buy an RO / DI or buy water from someone with a good RO / di. Start doing water changes, a daily 10% would be a good start until the phosphate and nitrate values are near 0 PPM. Time is not what determines how long you need to do this, you need to continue performing small water changes until the desired water quality is achieved.

Test your water regularly to determine what the aquarium needs and to determine if what your doing to the aquarium is keeping the waters values correct. You need to test for PH, ALK, Ammonia, NiTRITE, niTRATE, & phosphate. It would also be advisabe to test your calcium and magnesium values but may not be as important as the others. Testing these weekly or more will teach you what your tank does and what your tank needs. After several weeks of performing these tests, you will learn what you need to be doing and will be able to start testing less. You can not test infrequently and know what your tank needs or does. This is a very important practise that to many people don't do and eventually they get burned because of it in one way or another. You can't know how much and how often to perform water changes or add supplements to an aquarium if you are not testing regularly to see if what your doing is achieving the desired water quality & parameters - period!

Re evaluate your lighting on both the sump and your tank and correct as needed and as the budget allows. Light plays a too important roll in reef type aquariums to not have it right. Make sure the light are appropriate for what is being kept under them.

Using fish or inverts that are alive as a gauge to determine that thinks are ok is a really bad practice, it often means they are very tolerant. I think that better maintenance practices, better testing and possibly better equipment is the answer to what is wrong with this aquarium. If the system isn't being given what it needs to work properly, it won't

Joel




Bigmoo

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 18:04:22 »
WOW. You should be put on payroll. Very informative for anyone new to the hobby.



Offline fishnuttoo

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2009, 02:09:07 »
joel is a wealth of knowledge, i love reading his posts.....


keep em up ;D

Offline Amstar

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2009, 10:45:17 »
nice write up.  that took some time.  just makes me realize how much of a slacker I am (need to change those darn filter socks more than once a week)   :laugh:

bigfalcon36

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Re: Refugium help.
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2009, 11:02:52 »
Joel copied and pasted that...

Only kidding...When I get around to it, I'll make this a sticky because of the good information in it.

 

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